Oh..
Thank you for that explanation.
I am indeed aware of that, but was not familiar with those specific terms..
OK so back to your original message,
If we look on 6.5" drivers, wouldn't it be correct to say that on average, they can get to lower frequencies, and do it more easily and more nicely, than smaller diameter drivers?
That's why people always say that smaller diameter drivers sound "tinny",
compared to larger diameter ones..
(also that's why people are willing to pay more for speakers with larger diameter drivers, than smaller ones.. and I am talking about people who want better sound quality, and not just higher volume..)
Thank you for that explanation.
I am indeed aware of that, but was not familiar with those specific terms..
OK so back to your original message,
If we look on 6.5" drivers, wouldn't it be correct to say that on average, they can get to lower frequencies, and do it more easily and more nicely, than smaller diameter drivers?
That's why people always say that smaller diameter drivers sound "tinny",
compared to larger diameter ones..
(also that's why people are willing to pay more for speakers with larger diameter drivers, than smaller ones.. and I am talking about people who want better sound quality, and not just higher volume..)
In general, I would say the answer to your question is yes. However, a lot depends on how you'll be using the speaker and the driver/enclosure combination. Different enclosures will sound different with a particular driver. If you choose a proven design, you should be in good shape. I am in no way qualified to say which is best. Just speaking from experience, I've been very happy with 3" drivers for near field use. I haven't used anything like a 5" or 6" driver for near field.
2.0 set, to be used as Computer Speakers, which will be used for listening to music.
I do not need high volume (since I sit very close to them), but I want to achieve the best quality sound that I can get.
When I listen to a song/track, the part I like the most is the Chord and Orchestra parts of it.
(less need for Booms, or for very high frequency)
So mentioning 6.5" drivers, was not to achieve higher volume,
but to achieve better sound, than from a 3" or 4"..
(or at least that's what I thought, some people agree with this idea, other disagree..)
Let me reiterate that I have two exact such systems - computer very near field (less than 3ft), both as it so happens currently with Fostex FF85WK - they work quite satisfactory in several smallish enclosures - the Woden Lance probably delivering the best low end extension.
I've also used Fostex FE103ESol, FF105WK, several models of Mark Audio paper and metal cones(6 and 7 cm series) , Fountek FE85, Vifa TC9, ScanSpeak 10F - all of which are classified as either 3 or 4". While I do employ larger full range drivers in my small home theater ( Alpair10P & 10.3) , I can't see any advantage of them for this type of use.
I've also used Fostex FE103ESol, FF105WK, several models of Mark Audio paper and metal cones(6 and 7 cm series) , Fountek FE85, Vifa TC9, ScanSpeak 10F - all of which are classified as either 3 or 4". While I do employ larger full range drivers in my small home theater ( Alpair10P & 10.3) , I can't see any advantage of them for this type of use.
No love here for the PS220-8 fullrange? I've read posts by people going ga-ga over that one, and if you're gonna pay overseas shipping anyway maybe it justifies higher end merchandise?
Now, I haven't heard the PS220-8, though (I have a pair here but haven't managed to ever put them in any boxes to hear them), so don't take this as a recommendation. I'm just surprised they haven't been mentioned, since you were thinking of something else from Parts Express originally.
Now, I haven't heard the PS220-8, though (I have a pair here but haven't managed to ever put them in any boxes to hear them), so don't take this as a recommendation. I'm just surprised they haven't been mentioned, since you were thinking of something else from Parts Express originally.
bwaslo - at the risk of tedium, I refer back to the specific application cited for this case. Assuming that a single driver / full range system is intend, any of the decent 8" full range driver candidates - Dayton, TangBand, Fostex, Mark Audio, SEAS etc could be considered overkill. I've heard several models of those brands in larger systems, with listening distances in the 3-4 meter range, but just can't see the advantage for low volume level computer monitor application.
How nice..
If the driver is the same in both pairs, then what difference did you make to the structure of the enclosure?
Wow, I wish I could hear all of them
It's really interesting to experiment with different ones.
Against a wall..
But the back part of the speakers will have some distance from the wall..
About 10cm from the wall.. In inches it should be 4"
8" Drivers for near field desk speakers, you're not kidding around
Not even in sound quality?
It's hard for me to grasp this, I must admit.
To purify this problem, imagine this:
If you go to some music instruments store, they usually have there Studio Monitors.
As you have seen many times, all manufacturers of Studio monitors make them in several sizes.
Usually 5", 6.5", and 8".
For each manufacturer(assuming it's the same Monitor serie), the drivers are of the same diaphragm material, same mechanical structure (but in different size of course), and basically it's the same driver just different size and diameter.
Now If you take some song/track that you like and know well,
and play it on the 5" model, and on the 6.5" model, and on the 8" model,
(using the same volume in all 3 of them.. not trying to get any volume increase, but sitting in front of it and choosing a volume that is nice for your ears to listen),
you will not feel a difference in the sound that you get from the 5" the 6.5" and the 8"?
Is it just me?
Because I do feel a beautiful difference..
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take some time to research the following enclosures:
http://p10hifi.net/FAL/downloads/uFonkenWK-1v0-plan-130312.pdf
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...3-box-designs-baby-labs-more.html#post3748860
one of my personal pairs, in Dave's parlance the microFonken SET (special edition, Trapezoid)
Wow, I wish I could hear all of them
It's really interesting to experiment with different ones.
some things simply need to be experienced in the real world - which either confirm your preconception, or don't - and those are the most interesting
All things being equal - i.e. each model's enclosure is optimized to deliver the same level of performance of which the drivers are capable- mostly you're talking woofers here - yes the larger driver would do some things "better". But I'd dare say that at the very near field - quite possibly closer than would be the case for many 2-way studio monitors - and the low volume levels I've taken you to be talking about, the differences in bass extension and "slam" could be far less than you'd think. Indeed, depending on the design, a small 2-way might not fully integrate at less than 1 meter, where a 4" full range driver such as the Alpair7.3 will excel.
Try to remember that some of us have been doing this for quite a while - closing in on 50yrs for me - over which time we've evolved our own techniques for assessing what we hear, and have no doubt along the way accumulated our own biases / comfort level with strategic compromises.
As the title of this thread refers to an entirely subjective parameter - i.e. "nicest sound", you shouldn't be surprised at the range of suggestions and observations in response.
The speakers look amazing.
So maybe I should be less attracted to the bigger diameters for nearfield.
I will stick with your suggestion of 3 to 4"
Thank you for all the advices.
OK then
So maybe I should be less attracted to the bigger diameters for nearfield.
I will stick with your suggestion of 3 to 4"
Thank you for all the advices.
Hey
i think 3 - 4 inch drivers coupled with a woofer crossed below 400 Hz will assure a very detailed and accurate sound reproduction, a fast (fullrange and subwoofer).
A single fullrange driver can not achieve that level since it has to cover a much wider frequency range resulting in a much larger excursion (for bass) of the membran. -> less accurate reproduction of micro details.
i think 3 - 4 inch drivers coupled with a woofer crossed below 400 Hz will assure a very detailed and accurate sound reproduction, a fast (fullrange and subwoofer).
A single fullrange driver can not achieve that level since it has to cover a much wider frequency range resulting in a much larger excursion (for bass) of the membran. -> less accurate reproduction of micro details.
Spaceman, there are many many many differences between large and small drivers. I could explain, but I would have to write an essay.
There is nothing inherently better or worse about a speaker being larger or smaller, all else being equal. Actually, a theoretically perfect speaker would be an infinitely small sphere that could produce 20hz-20khz equally.
We could super mega simplify it by saying that at least for a full-range driver, a 3" to 4" speaker driver is the best set of pros and cons that current technology and manufacturing can mass produce.
I'd say the upper limit right now is 6.5" for a mass-produced full range driver that I would consider has an adequately smooth and flat frequency response. This is my opinion, of course.
There is nothing inherently better or worse about a speaker being larger or smaller, all else being equal. Actually, a theoretically perfect speaker would be an infinitely small sphere that could produce 20hz-20khz equally.
We could super mega simplify it by saying that at least for a full-range driver, a 3" to 4" speaker driver is the best set of pros and cons that current technology and manufacturing can mass produce.
I'd say the upper limit right now is 6.5" for a mass-produced full range driver that I would consider has an adequately smooth and flat frequency response. This is my opinion, of course
.Thank you sayrum
Really interesting. To know there's an optimal value/value-range, rather than aspiring for simply large one
Maybe there's some (not long, but more like concise) article that you know, that describes the advantages and disadvantages of small and large diameters?
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A larger cone area can move more air, hence, produce more lower frequencies at a higher SPL. (At the expense of lower SPL/higher THD at higher frequencies) Wizzer cones help somewhat but not as accurate as a driver designed for the "intended" frequency range.. (Re: Mid/Tweet)
The smaller the cone area, the higher the resonant frequency. Smaller simple paper cone drivers work well in the mid-high frequency range and usually have a high SPL rating. They may be great in the mid-high region but poor in the lower frequency region..
Drivers in the 3-5" range have the capability to produce lower frequencies at the expense of total SPL. In this range of size, mid-high frequencies are easy for them to produce BUT if per design, the focus is lower frequencies, you'll have less efficient drivers..
Finding the holy grail of frequency balance in a single driver is up to the user. Some like more mid-highs than others and others prefer more bass response. There is a large assortment of single (Full Range) drivers out there to fit someone with their interpretation of full range..
The smaller the cone area, the higher the resonant frequency. Smaller simple paper cone drivers work well in the mid-high frequency range and usually have a high SPL rating. They may be great in the mid-high region but poor in the lower frequency region..
Drivers in the 3-5" range have the capability to produce lower frequencies at the expense of total SPL. In this range of size, mid-high frequencies are easy for them to produce BUT if per design, the focus is lower frequencies, you'll have less efficient drivers..
Finding the holy grail of frequency balance in a single driver is up to the user. Some like more mid-highs than others and others prefer more bass response. There is a large assortment of single (Full Range) drivers out there to fit someone with their interpretation of full range..
You can't be fully objective as some might claim that flatter FR is lifeless but bumpy one has sparkle, warmness etc. I would suggest getting inexpensive drivers and making a simple enclosure to understand what properties you are after. There's no holy grail - everything is a compromise at one point or another.
If you're like most on this forum, this won't be the only speaker you'll build. My advice would be to just pick one for now, and see how you like it. Once you know what you like and dislike about it, you can seek advice concerning those areas. As has been mentioned, speaker appreciation is very subjective and is loaded with compromises.
Like I said, the best thing to do now, in my opinion, is to pick one and go with it. Build, listen, rebuild, listen more, etc. There's no absolute answer concerning "best."
Like I said, the best thing to do now, in my opinion, is to pick one and go with it. Build, listen, rebuild, listen more, etc. There's no absolute answer concerning "best."
Thank you for all the tips!
So I think in simple words we can say, that the diameter is affected not just by the application,
but also by the preferred frequency range of the listener.
Someone who like more the highs, will prefer a (relatively ) smaller one,
and someone who likes more the mid-low, might prefer a bigger one..
In my case I usually like to lower the treble on any speakers/system that I listen to,
(and I have a friend who is exactly the opposite, he likes alot of treble),
maybe that's why I was more naturally attracted to bigger sizes like 6.5"...
I will generate myself several different pairs,
worst case I can put some in other rooms, or give to friends/family
Interesting.
So I think in simple words we can say, that the diameter is affected not just by the application,
but also by the preferred frequency range of the listener.
Someone who like more the highs, will prefer a (relatively ) smaller one,
and someone who likes more the mid-low, might prefer a bigger one..
In my case I usually like to lower the treble on any speakers/system that I listen to,
(and I have a friend who is exactly the opposite, he likes alot of treble),
maybe that's why I was more naturally attracted to bigger sizes like 6.5"...
Great idea..
I will generate myself several different pairs,
worst case I can put some in other rooms, or give to friends/family
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