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Old 30th December 2015, 07:35 PM   #1
sieniek is offline sieniek  United Kingdom
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Default Full Range speaker project

Hello audio friends. My name is Rafael and this is my first post here on this forum. Firstly maybe I will introduce myself a little bit. I'm living in UK in Leeds for around 6 years. I am a music lover like all of you here but I think I am still only an amateur or a newbie in this industry and hobby...mainly because even when I love listen to music my knowledge in audio is not so good. All i know is thankfully to guys like you because when I am doing a research on audio i can find many interesting things.

So I am here because I need your help...I would like to build my own full range speakers. Why I would like full range speakers ? Mainly because they are easier to build than 2 way or 3 way speakers, and from what I've heard they can sing in some ways with better sound quality and musicality than 2 or 3 way.

At the moment I have Kef LS50 speakers, my amp is Creek Evolution 100a and my dac is Chord Hugo. I like how kef speakers sing but...I would like to have "bigger" sound and if this is possible even better in any way.? Is it possible to surpass Kef LS50 by diy full range ? Can full range diy play even better in mids and highs than LS50 ?

If yes then please tell me or give me any tips which full range speakers to buy etc ? 5inch or 6inch or 8inch ?

I thought about open baffle as well...as I said..last times I am doing a lot of research and I have read a lot of stuff about open baffle as well but from what I know they can sing great but with one full range speaker they have problem with bass so I am here to ask you for any ideas what can be best for me.

My living room is around 4,5 m x 4 m and I dont care about movies, music is the most important hobby (equal with football) in my life, so please help me to build my own best speakers ever.

I prefer to pay a little bit more for full range speakers parts if they will be better. Just looking for best possible option.

In the future I will think and do by diy or buy some subwoofer as well.

Please help me guys,

Best Regards,

Rafael

PS. sorry for my english language
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Old 30th December 2015, 09:54 PM   #2
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1st: Leeds, i hope the floods aren't making your life a pain.

You happen to live in a hot-bed of FR/hifi activity. If you want to hook up with the community contact Colin or Scott. Reiver Acoustic

There are usually a couple get togethers every year.

AFAIC the sweet spot for FR drivers is ~4-5".

OBs are something we have tried a number of times, we find that there is something just not quite right, but with any speaker having as many compromises as they do, what we don't like may be fine with you. To get bass they either need to be big or you need to do a FAST with a FR & a BIG woofer. The MJK passive baffle article is a good solid starting point.

A FAST pushes the XO down into a region where many of the evils of having an XO just go away.

I would recommend checking out Frugel-Horn Mk3 or Frugel-Horn XL. The designer is just east of you in Hull. And if you have trouble with building there are a couple flat-pak makers in the UK (Colin used to be one, but he only does complete ones now). The Frugel-Horn Family

You will find that a good FR is more seemless than the KEF, althou taken in isolation, the HF is, perhaps not as good as the KEF, but when considered as a whole the FR will have characteristics that a speaker with a complex XO right in the most sensitive hearing range is very unlikely to ever be able to achieve.

dave
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Old 31st December 2015, 12:45 AM   #3
sieniek is offline sieniek  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
1st: Leeds, i hope the floods aren't making your life a pain.

You happen to live in a hot-bed of FR/hifi activity. If you want to hook up with the community contact Colin or Scott. Reiver Acoustic

There are usually a couple get togethers every year.

AFAIC the sweet spot for FR drivers is ~4-5".

OBs are something we have tried a number of times, we find that there is something just not quite right, but with any speaker having as many compromises as they do, what we don't like may be fine with you. To get bass they either need to be big or you need to do a FAST with a FR & a BIG woofer. The MJK passive baffle article is a good solid starting point.

A FAST pushes the XO down into a region where many of the evils of having an XO just go away.

I would recommend checking out Frugel-Horn Mk3 or Frugel-Horn XL. The designer is just east of you in Hull. And if you have trouble with building there are a couple flat-pak makers in the UK (Colin used to be one, but he only does complete ones now). The Frugel-Horn Family

You will find that a good FR is more seemless than the KEF, althou taken in isolation, the HF is, perhaps not as good as the KEF, but when considered as a whole the FR will have characteristics that a speaker with a complex XO right in the most sensitive hearing range is very unlikely to ever be able to achieve.

dave
Hello Dave and thank you for answer. I'm ok thank you for asking...my gym is closed because of floods so I can't train at the moment but overall all is ok.

Do you think I can get better sound from 2 or 3 way than from full range ? I know that can be a stupid question but there is an option I would try 2 or 3 way if that would sond better. ?

I would like to build speakers which will be better than my Kef in every aspects. Is that possible ? If yes then better of doing it in full range or in 2 or 3 way ?

Also I found that Coral Beta 10 full range is so great full range speaker. What do you think about these ? Is today any better full range than old good Coral Beta 10 ?

Best Regards,

Rafael
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Old 31st December 2015, 01:38 AM   #4
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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Full range driver speaker building is a journey and a process. It will highly be unlikely that you will be building just one. Maybe start with something easy and fun the move to something more "monitor" like. Easy cheap and fun can start with a TC9FD in a 0.4x scale Karlsonator. There are many satisfied builders of this speaker. Rich full sound, great musicality.

Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

If ready to move onto 2 way FAST, this speaker sounds fantastic. You can start with a TG9FD rather than a 10Fto save some money. Woofer alternatives are also available if RS225 is not readily available where you are. Any 8in high excursion Qts of 0.35 to 0.45 should work.

10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor

Go active though - it allows xo tuning on the fly and allows you to implement quasi transient perfect Harsch XO.

Last edited by xrk971; 31st December 2015 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 31st December 2015, 03:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sieniek View Post
Do you think I can get better sound from 2 or 3 way than from full range ?
I think you can.

But keep in mind that even the best speakers have a large number of compromises. If the compromises involved with a FR are a better match to the set of compromises that suit you then, yes, you can do a speaker that you find gives you more pleasure & enjoyment.

Quote:
I would like to build speakers which will be better than my Kef in every aspects. Is that possible?
Given the above thing about compromises there are many ways to do it. I haven't heard the KEF so i can't comment. I have seen reviews where they are loved, and others where they are much less so. I talked with a guy who liked his LS50 but much prefered a set of 4.5" Omega FR he got.

Quote:
Also I found that Coral Beta 10 full range is so great full range speaker. What do you think about these ? Is today any better full range than old good Coral Beta 10 ?
I've only heard Beta 8. They were good, but i think the best of modern FRs have finally passed the best of the 50s/60s (when earlier FR development peaked).

A note on the scan 10F XRK mentioned. It is good, but way overpriced. FF85wk, Alpair 6.x, 5.2 would be a better choice. And likely others… (no one person can possibly evaluate the myriad of FRs hitting the market, but we do try lots). The FF85wKeN is one of our favorites for midTweeter in a FAST.

As X says it is much easier to play with FASTs, and you have way more versatility and choice if you go active (4 amp channels).

dave
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Old 31st December 2015, 10:48 AM   #6
bolly is offline bolly  Canada
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Hi sieniek do you have coral beta 10?
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Old 1st January 2016, 10:43 AM   #7
sieniek is offline sieniek  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by bolly View Post
Hi sieniek do you have coral beta 10?
Hello bolly unfortunately I don't have coral beta 10.

Best Regards and Happy New Year for every audio lover.
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Old 1st January 2016, 10:52 AM   #8
sieniek is offline sieniek  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
Full range driver speaker building is a journey and a process. It will highly be unlikely that you will be building just one. Maybe start with something easy and fun the move to something more "monitor" like. Easy cheap and fun can start with a TC9FD in a 0.4x scale Karlsonator. There are many satisfied builders of this speaker. Rich full sound, great musicality.

Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

If ready to move onto 2 way FAST, this speaker sounds fantastic. You can start with a TG9FD rather than a 10Fto save some money. Woofer alternatives are also available if RS225 is not readily available where you are. Any 8in high excursion Qts of 0.35 to 0.45 should work.

10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST Ref Monitor

Go active though - it allows xo tuning on the fly and allows you to implement quasi transient perfect Harsch XO.
Hell and thank you for replying here. I think I would like to build something which will be good enough for me and will stop there. I believe once I will do good sounding speakers it will be enough for me with building or buying speakers for some time. It will be hard to find a sweet spot but who said life is easy...so maybe even some 3 way speakers project which you know they are very good sounding ?

Best Regards and Happy New Year !
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Old 1st January 2016, 11:30 AM   #9
sieniek is offline sieniek  United Kingdom
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Join Date: Dec 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
I think you can.

But keep in mind that even the best speakers have a large number of compromises. If the compromises involved with a FR are a better match to the set of compromises that suit you then, yes, you can do a speaker that you find gives you more pleasure & enjoyment.



Given the above thing about compromises there are many ways to do it. I haven't heard the KEF so i can't comment. I have seen reviews where they are loved, and others where they are much less so. I talked with a guy who liked his LS50 but much prefered a set of 4.5" Omega FR he got.



I've only heard Beta 8. They were good, but i think the best of modern FRs have finally passed the best of the 50s/60s (when earlier FR development peaked).

A note on the scan 10F XRK mentioned. It is good, but way overpriced. FF85wk, Alpair 6.x, 5.2 would be a better choice. And likely others… (no one person can possibly evaluate the myriad of FRs hitting the market, but we do try lots). The FF85wKeN is one of our favorites for midTweeter in a FAST.

As X says it is much easier to play with FASTs, and you have way more versatility and choice if you go active (4 amp channels).

dave
Hello Dave and Happy New Year. I think I will try to build 2 way or 3 way. You've helped me a lot at the moment and big thanks to you for that. If you would have choose between 2 way and 3 way which one would you choose ?

Is there anything better to build for the similar price in two way speaker than the one 2 way speaker with scan 10F xrk mentioned ? Sorry for so many questions. Everything is getting much more clear for me so it is easier to decide what to buy how to build etc.

Best Regards and Happy New Year Dave !

Rafael
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Old 1st January 2016, 01:17 PM   #10
bolly is offline bolly  Canada
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I built a 2 way with eminence beta 15 and coral beta 8 but have never tried any other full range so I don't know which sounds best but I really like my setup! It was very easy to make with the help from this forum
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