Funny you should ask, there are in fact, 4 more of the "Subjective Blind" threads with over 2 dozens drivers total. Have fun...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...nd-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-3in-5in-drivers-round-2-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-3-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-comparison-2in-3-5in-drivers-round-5-a.html
You should listen to the clips from the tests with good headphones. Unless you already have a verified flat response, low distortion, "monitor" speaker, then that can work. I am not sure of the signal chain you have as I am unfamiliar with a lot of the components you mention. It doesn't sound like you currently have "monitor" type speakers. I did a little search on the TDL RTL2 speakers and they look quite nice - I like damped TL speakers, but I am not sure how flat they measure. If you want to give one of my compact TL monitors a try - here is one of my designs:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/281778-low-cost-pmc-inspired-tl-monitor-dc130a-dc28f.html
It measures well and sounds great - and can play any genre well. For how small it is and with such low cost parts, the performance is quite amazing. I currently listen to these speakers and am amazed at the balance, clarity, and ability to handle difficult bass lines. When installed on my desk with a back wall 2 ft away they are flat to 30Hz with sub 2% HD below 100Hz at 93dB at the listening position. Above 100Hz the HD is below 0.5%.
Ultimately, your choice is a personal one. If you want my opinion, a driver that measures well will sound good with a wide range of material/genres. A driver that measures not so well may sound good with some material but not all material. Look for flat frequency response, or at least one fairly devoid of major break-up peaks or dips. Look for low harmonic distortion. Look for impulse response that doesn't ring. Then listen to it and decide for yourself.
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Do keep in mind that what you are listening to includes X's amps, rooms, source, and suffers a significant loss of information when it is recorded and compressed. You are only getting a glimpse of what the drivers do… the largest part of the response, and miss the way the drivers do with the small detail that really make an impact on long-term enjoyment.
You could use it as a pre-selection guide, but i WOULD NOT use it to make a final decision.
dave
I own the Vifa PC9 and Dayton PS95 (your first and second choices). They are both lovely sounding drivers but sound less alike than they do in the online test. In person you can really hear their personalities (or lack thereof). The Vifa is more precise along with a flatter frequency response. It excels at resolving vocal harmonies - practically putting the singers in your room. The Dayton is a bit fizzier with a brighter treble. It's a bit more efficient and fills my room with a more lively sound. It doesn't resolve vocal harmonies as realistically as the Vifa... but my seventeen year old prefers it overall. My fifteen year old prefers the Vifa.
I can't decide and enjoy switching between the two. In fact, this weekend will be the PS95's turn. These two drivers are better than most full rangers I've heard - regardless of price.
As for XRK's online comparisons, based on my experience with the two drivers above, I'd say whatever overall character you hear online can be magnified 10x in person.
I can't decide and enjoy switching between the two. In fact, this weekend will be the PS95's turn. These two drivers are better than most full rangers I've heard - regardless of price.
As for XRK's online comparisons, based on my experience with the two drivers above, I'd say whatever overall character you hear online can be magnified 10x in person.
The good thing is that the TC9FD, TG9FD, 10F/8424, and PS95-8 all have about the same bolt hole and cutout hole so are swapable. It's fun to listen to one for a week or two and switch. Kind of like drinking different wines or beers. They are all good. I would add the Fountek FR88EX - nice driver with good HF extension that doesn't ring.
Thanks XRK, I’ll have some fun with those threads over the weekend.
I am listening through both headphones and speakers. Each have characteristics I am familiar with and compensate for in determining my personal preference.
Hi Dave, Yes, I completely agree. Far too many variables to base a decision off of.
However, I am curious about the following 3 points
1 - can I detect a familial sound trait from one brand or manufacturers grouping to another?
2 - can I relate what I hear (both desire and detest) to these electronics parameters that xrk keeps talking about?
3 - I tend to be very black and white in any analysis. To what degree therefore can an overly bright speaker be tamed, or a dull muffled speaker, have the blanket covering it removed? For instance, I have sweetened and smoothed the treble & enhanced detail with speaker cable changes and tightened the bass through a variety of means. but historically the parameters of bright & sibilant or dull and muffled have meant a replacement component.
Hi Godzilla,
Thanks, thats very useful and you have pretty much answered my point 3 above.
It would be interesting to see if after these additional tests whether or not we have similar tastes as that may prove a considerable factor in narrowing down which build to pursue.
Thanks again chaps!
I am listening through both headphones and speakers. Each have characteristics I am familiar with and compensate for in determining my personal preference.
Hi Dave, Yes, I completely agree. Far too many variables to base a decision off of.
However, I am curious about the following 3 points
1 - can I detect a familial sound trait from one brand or manufacturers grouping to another?
2 - can I relate what I hear (both desire and detest) to these electronics parameters that xrk keeps talking about?
3 - I tend to be very black and white in any analysis. To what degree therefore can an overly bright speaker be tamed, or a dull muffled speaker, have the blanket covering it removed? For instance, I have sweetened and smoothed the treble & enhanced detail with speaker cable changes and tightened the bass through a variety of means. but historically the parameters of bright & sibilant or dull and muffled have meant a replacement component.
Hi Godzilla,
Thanks, thats very useful and you have pretty much answered my point 3 above.
It would be interesting to see if after these additional tests whether or not we have similar tastes as that may prove a considerable factor in narrowing down which build to pursue.
Thanks again chaps!
>>> It's fun to listen to one for a week or two and switch.
It's also fun to listen to inexpensive drivers that sound nearly as good as their more expensive family relatives.
>>> Kind of like drinking different wines or beers.
I do that too!
My pleasure, GregNeedsCoffee. IMO XRKs comparison tests have allowed us as a DIY community to find bargains among the options out there. Having said that, it's certainly fair to point out that everyone likes something different so even drivers that did not win the test (or rank highly) could still be enjoyed. For example, I have a 4" TangBand that did not rank at the top of the tests that I also enjoy. It's like a dark blend from Starbucks that needs sugar whereas the Dayton PS95 is naturally sweet. But some drivers are like old coffee that need to be thrown out because no matter what, they just aren't tasty. One thing these tests secured in my mind was that there's no reason to accept crappy sound. Many of the options are relatively cheap and the better ones compare favorably with more expensive options.
It's also fun to listen to inexpensive drivers that sound nearly as good as their more expensive family relatives.
>>> Kind of like drinking different wines or beers.
I do that too!
My pleasure, GregNeedsCoffee. IMO XRKs comparison tests have allowed us as a DIY community to find bargains among the options out there. Having said that, it's certainly fair to point out that everyone likes something different so even drivers that did not win the test (or rank highly) could still be enjoyed. For example, I have a 4" TangBand that did not rank at the top of the tests that I also enjoy. It's like a dark blend from Starbucks that needs sugar whereas the Dayton PS95 is naturally sweet. But some drivers are like old coffee that need to be thrown out because no matter what, they just aren't tasty. One thing these tests secured in my mind was that there's no reason to accept crappy sound. Many of the options are relatively cheap and the better ones compare favorably with more expensive options.
There is a distinct similarity in the sound (neutral flat and un-exaggerated) of the TC9FD, TG9FD, and 10F/8424. They were all developed under the Vifa brand at one point - and the companies split but the technology was from same core. The black cone TPY03 that I recently tested is another one in the same family.
Sibillance can be predicted to occur based on measurements - you will see a large peak (circa +7dB to 12dB sometimes) in the 8kHz to 12kHz range. That peak translates to a ringing response which prolongs the high frequencies of the "shhh", "tsst" or "ssff" sound, which you then hear as sibillance. Sometimes they can be tamed with some EQ, or a notch filter, but not for all axis listening angles. Sometimes applying mechanical damping to the cone can help - like small strips of tape or rubber, or coating with a varnish. It's best to have a driver that doesn't have it in the first place.
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