advantages of karlsonator - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Gallery Wiki Blogs Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 6th November 2015, 07:40 AM   #1
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Default advantages of karlsonator

i am trying to find advantages of karlsonator design as compared against traditional sealed, vented and TL boxes. also what to know what type of drivers (TS params) are suitable for these?
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2015, 04:02 AM   #2
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Metro DC area
I suggest you take a look at the mini Karlsonator thread, and the Karlsonator thread, proper. Also take a look at the Speaker that Kicks Butt thread. The discussion is all there with theory and practice as to why it works. Also, look at my take of a modern K using a 6th order band pass approach.

Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

Karlsonator

A Speaker that Kicks Butt in Large Spaces

XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass

Here are measurements of a 0.40x scale mini Karlsonator with a 3FE25 driver:
Click the image to open in full size.

The advantages of the Karlsonator over other alignments briefly is this:

1. Full rich bodied bass and mid bass that is so great that it never needs baffle step compensation. I know of no other speaker that has this much rich full bass gain. So for example, if you have a 90dB sensitive driver, usually that means when put in a speaker, the bass will falloff (even with a MLTL or BR box) by about -5dB or so for a typical width speaker box circa 6in to 12in wide baffle. So you really have an 85dB sensitive speaker if balanced for bass. With the Karlsonator, you get the full 90dB down to the low corner frequency. For example look at the bass output from a Karlsonator withe the CHN-70, the sensitivity is pretty flat all the way to the 70Hz box tuning frequency - there is no BSC applied here for an 8in wide baffle:
Click the image to open in full size.

2. The polar dispersion if very wide and uniform because the K-aperture acts as an acoustic lens that forces a smooth even dispersion. Look at the polar variation for the XKi with a RS100 driver (+/-1dB over 90 deg angle up to 6kHz and +/-2.5dB up to 10kHz) - so you get a wide sweet spot:
Click the image to open in full size.

3. The dynamics and transient response are excellent, so drums, guitar, piano, stand up bass, etc sound live and realistic. Take a look at the impulse of the RS 40-1197 in the mini Karlsonator (the driver needs to be clean to start with, the cabinet does not mess up a good IR if it is there):
Click the image to open in full size.

4. It's very musical sounding and very engaging to listen to. There is no fatigue and in fact, you can take a driver that normally may have some nasty peaks that cause fatigue in an open face speaker, put it in a Karlsonator and the aperture smooths out and cleans up the peaks - homogenizes it and the speaker can be listened to without harshness. Listen to some sound clips in the mini Karlsonator thread and you will get an idea.

What's the downside? The K-aperture will cause some dips in the mid response, the famous W shaped set of dips. These are not that audible or noticable, but prevent the Karlsonator from being a hifi speaker or a "monitor". For normal listening to music though, it is, again and again, my preferred "go to" speaker. Also, I would recommend it as a first full range speaker build. Very easy to make.

Here is a room full of Karlsonators:
Click the image to open in full size.

If you want a recommendation where to start:

Plans for 0.40x here: Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

Buy a $19 faital Pro 3FE25 driver and you have a 90dB full range speaker that goes down to 70Hz in a compact easy to make box. Ansd it sounds great! Lots of happy build on that thread.

Last edited by xrk971; 7th November 2015 at 04:09 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2015, 04:12 AM   #3
freddi is offline freddi  United States
diyAudio Member
 
freddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
some very good recordings came from use of the original Karlson as a monitor

Click the image to open in full size. Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by freddi; 7th November 2015 at 04:41 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2015, 07:17 AM   #4
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
thanks xrk for the details. i want to use k box for below drivers,
fane 12-250TC
Fane International Ltd Loud Speakers

from another post i came to know freddi has used these drivers already in K boxes. but it seems their qts and Fs are inconsistent with manufacturer spec sheet values. i want to confirm if TS and Fs values affect volume of K boxes. or K12/K15 boxes can be used for these drivers without bothering about the parameters?
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2015, 07:45 AM   #5
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Metro DC area
K12/k15 need low Qts drivers (below 0.35 is best). karlsonator can use moderate 0.35 to 0.55 Qts. Although for small drivers works with high Qts too.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2015, 01:27 PM   #6
Account disabled at member's request
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
K12/k15 need low Qts drivers (below 0.35 is best). karlsonator can use moderate 0.35 to 0.55 Qts. Although for small drivers works with high Qts too.
then clearly fane is ruled out!
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2015, 01:39 PM   #7
freddi is offline freddi  United States
diyAudio Member
 
freddi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
- I ran the Fane in a Karlsonator 12 - with that cabinet, it could play hip-hop bass reasonably well but upper bass had to be peaking and was somewhat heavy. In K12 with the slit vent damped with a piece of bonded Dacron, the Fane played well with no trace of boom - its hot mids and lively treble were good for the K - but it had no low bass so would require a subwoofer. K12 subjectively played/plays well in the mids and highs with vintage speakers having qts as high or higher than 1 - those were low vas - high fs types. To have good subject "kick" , stronger motors help. I did not take qtc for the Fane/K12 combo.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2015, 03:09 PM   #8
Greg B is offline Greg B  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Quote:
Originally Posted by coherenceaudio View Post
i am trying to find advantages of karlsonator design as compared against traditional sealed, vented and TL boxes.
More bass. High efficiency. No BSC needed. Wide dispersion. Relatively compact size for their efficiency.


Quote:
also what to know what type of drivers (TS params) are suitable for these?
As x said, moderate Qts is best, though they are fairly tolerant of differing parameters.

For that particular Fane 12, I think you'd be happiest in a simple one fold ML-TQWT instead. Less chance of bass boom. A box like this is sort of like a Karlsonator without the front loading. A big fat TQWT enclosure will IME sound more lively and less flabby than an equivalent BR or sealed box with that sort of pro driver.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2015, 05:45 PM   #9
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
i don't look at the mid bass "dip" in a karlson as a bad thing it's kind of like having the "loudness" contour built into the sound of the enclosure.(currently playing with the idea of trying to make the dip happen at between 300 -400 hz)
back when the karlson was first introduced not many amp/recievers had "loudness" contour eq built in which might well be why they appealed to some.
  Reply With Quote
Old 7th November 2015, 05:51 PM   #10
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Metro DC area
The LS3/5A has a purpose-built in -2dB dip at about 350Hz to make voices less "thick" and more intelligible. Is this the same thing?
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Karlsonator Greg B Full Range 265 27th September 2016 12:30 PM
TDA7297 and Karlsonator prezden Class D 24 7th December 2015 12:30 AM
Karlsonator? cbarth Planet 10 hifi 4 9th September 2015 01:36 PM
Karlsonator 12 for 12LTA freddi Full Range 31 1st January 2015 08:51 PM
This speaker is good for a Karlsonator ? lexer98 Full Range 13 18th March 2014 05:22 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 10:34 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2016 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2
Wiki