Audio Nirvana Classic 12 and Classic 15: how new are these?

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I find that full range drivers need eq, always.
YMMV, but I used a stereo 31 band graphic eq on my cast frame 12's but after a long break in time pulled it from the rack as they didn't need it anymore .
I'm thinking enough vibration hours loosened up the whizzer cone or cone next to the whizzer and alleviated a couple of peaks I was notching out with the eq.
Just used a simple contour circuit to tame the rising high end .
 
Bigun, still 1 open backed speaker ?

Yes, just the one. Stereo sounds 'false' to me - a novelty when I do hear it but not my preferred listening.

I have tried a couple of times now to install a back-panel to the box - it was designed for it and I fabricated one for it. Each time I bolt it on, the sound becomes boring. So clearly, my preference is for some non-idealities of frequency response from open back box, and for some ambiance from the sound also emanating from the back of the driver.

I always thought I would prefer clean and pure, seems my ears/brain say otherwise.

Oh, and it sounds good with both SS and tube amps. With my TGM7 150W SS amp the bass is very tight. With my tube amp it's less tight but more engaging perhaps, due to lower damping factor.

I keep thinking about building another speaker, that's why you see me lurking on this part of the forum, but I'm not sure what to build that will be better than the AN15 in the open back box. What I would like is a more seamless top-end, the treble dispersion is a little more complex thanks to whizzer and phase plug - but it's only a minor thing - besides, I could not give up the dynamics and bass of the large cone. No idea if there's another cone out there that could do it all ?
 
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One must be very careful with Audio Nirvana's published T/S parameters.
I have owned both the super 12 and super 8 stamped frame drivers, and besides the fact that they sounded dreadful (tried several enclosures and amps, including a high end SE EL34), the T/S parameters were all over the place.
David is very good at marketing his products but the quality and consistency at the time (some 4 years ago) was really lacking...
Never tried the horn ones though.
Let us know how they sound if you pull the trigger.
Regards,

I agree with all the above. In my case It's not good when all 3 drivers make a buzzing noise after receiving them. David did take care of me but, am still shy on pulling the trigger on buying another A.N. Product after he just started selling his 8 inch stamped frame full range driver's years ago that this happened. Jm
 
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Yes, just the one. Stereo sounds 'false' to me - a novelty when I do hear it but not my preferred listening.

I have tried a couple of times now to install a back-panel to the box - it was designed for it and I fabricated one for it. Each time I bolt it on, the sound becomes boring. So clearly, my preference is for some non-idealities of frequency response from open back box, and for some ambiance from the sound also emanating from the back of the driver.

I always thought I would prefer clean and pure, seems my ears/brain say otherwise.

Oh, and it sounds good with both SS and tube amps. With my TGM7 150W SS amp the bass is very tight. With my tube amp it's less tight but more engaging perhaps, due to lower damping factor.

I keep thinking about building another speaker, that's why you see me lurking on this part of the forum, but I'm not sure what to build that will be better than the AN15 in the open back box. What I would like is a more seamless top-end, the treble dispersion is a little more complex thanks to whizzer and phase plug - but it's only a minor thing - besides, I could not give up the dynamics and bass of the large cone. No idea if there's another cone out there that could do it all ?
I'm also used to think I needed ultra-clean but I discovered something: with too clean speakers I never relax, always trying to chase bugs in response, and cleaner the thing more I perceive colorations in the speaker!:eek::mad::eek::) Strange but true. With fullranges (or wideband large 2-way) I forget to mess up and concentrates in music.
Same with amplifiers to me.

About Audio Nirvanas, I measured some 8" models (Cast Frame and stamped), and the AN 10" Cast Frame, and at least one thing I can say about them (no, is not about the response :p:D:) ): their motor is not only huge, is well made. Their THD in bass is low, lower than several long throw desings (but with less Xmax limit, of course), and perceived IMD is LOWER than some composite 2-ways!! And even with several break-up, normal for all full-ranges (but in different levels from maker to maker), the high range THD is fair-to-low. And probalby/perhaps/maybe, due to very low Le, these speakers presents some first class low flux modulation, and perhaps explain the low perceived IMD.
And some guys always say to don't bother with driver THD, but in my book driver THD is too high to dismiss and NEEDs to be checked. Results can be surprising, like in these Audio Nirvanas (well, most people are expecting horrific/very poor THD in these designs, but I invite them to measure before).
 
My experience with those drivers says that their motors are actually wimpy.
Not only is their Qts around twice as the one quoted in their spec sheets, but the frequency response has a 10-15db upward tilt between mid and high frequencies.
with these facts in mind, I think that looking at any kind of distortion graph is a moot point.
 
I'm one of the people who regards THD as useless -but that's because it's lumped sum of all the distortion products & therefore tells you nothing of value. Individual distortion levels (2nd, 3rd, 4th etc) on the other hand can tell you a lot, so are well worth looking at. :)
I'm 100% fully agree here...
My "oops" (my bad): trying to reduce the text, so I quoted "THD" (maybe I need to quote nHD or HD)...
Is very common these errors in my texts (even in Portuguese)... maybe why I only subscribed at foruns "late" in 2015, 20+ years after my start with DIY.
And one more thing: normally the THD quotes don't weight the HD spectrum so eg. some offensive 7H, witch occurs at rather low level, don't change the total HD indicator.
 
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My experience with those drivers says that their motors are actually wimpy.
Not only is their Qts around twice as the one quoted in their spec sheets, but the frequency response has a 10-15db upward tilt between mid and high frequencies.
with these facts in mind, I think that looking at any kind of distortion graph is a moot point.
Maybe yes, maybe not, depending of their use (TQWT, bass reflex, MLTL, or horn).
But I noted good HD number (and fair to good harmonic spectrum) even with rising response. So if you put some more bass (or reduce mids), within limits (if you don't need thunderous bass notes), you have a clean bass until Xmax is reached.

Of course, is always a matter of usage or love-or-hate this concept (personal preferences).
 
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I'm 100% fully agree here...
My "oops" (my bad): trying to reduce the text, so I quoted "THD" (maybe I need to quote nHD or HD)...
Is very common these errors in my texts (even in Portuguese)... maybe why I only subscribed at foruns "late" in 2015, 20+ years after my start with DIY.
And one more thing: normally the THD quotes don't weight the HD spectrum so eg. some offensive 7H, witch occurs at rather low level, don't change the total HD indicator.

No worries; I can only get by in English (some would say not even that ;) ) so I admire anyone who can have a technical discussion in a different language. :)
 
my stamped frame Super8s have had their fs shift a half octave higher than new to the mid 60's and resultant qts up to ~0.38. - - Don't know if my Super10's (qts ~0.41, fs near 50 when new) have shifted or not as have not tested for a long time. Super 10 (stamped frame) sounded and behaved better in the Karlsonator 12 than reflex.
 
Wouldn't that be a good thing for sealed or porteds?

.2 qts is super low.
I know your karlsons seems to like .3 or slightly lower.

To me, most of this stuff needs a 10 band eq anyway.

I think Bob brines said amazing how similar once the drivers (same size I think) are eq'ed flat.
 
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I did once compare my AN15 with MA10.3 Pencil's (which I built for a friend). Just subjectively of course. I was looking for a new project and thought I'd try my hand at something based on the MA10.3, expecting it to be a step up in terms of refinement over the AN15. Actually, I expected the Pencil's to blow the AN15 away, especially at the upper end. However, I found them quite comparable (the MA10.3 is better directly on-axis), but preferred the additional low-end response of the AN15. I'm still itching to try another speaker project, but I'm not sure what to try that would be significantly improved over the AN15 and still have enough sensitivity for a tube amp - I'm now thinking I'll have to go 2-way to find something better or drop the idea of high sensitivity.
 
In 2012 I have an adventure with AN10, in huge OB. I loved the sound. But in search of "different things" I tried, in 2014, a 2-way project, the Troels Gravesen TQWT mkII. I liked very much: very good sensivity for a "almost-ruler-flat" response (real 94dB) and strong and realistic bass (but less sensivity in treble comparing to AN10 due to not having the AN rising response). Of course, is another (and expensive) experience, so finally I settled in this 2-way, but I always remember the fun times with AN10. Probably some people maybe take the reverse route. So the ideal is hear first but since very few brave souls have this type os projects geographically near, we DIY need to take risks...
 
In 2012 I have an adventure with AN10, in huge OB. I loved the sound. But in search of "different things" I tried, in 2014, a 2-way project, the Troels Gravesen TQWT mkII. I liked very much: very good sensivity for a "almost-ruler-flat" response (real 94dB) and strong and realistic bass (but less sensivity in treble comparing to AN10 due to not having the AN rising response). Of course, is another (and expensive) experience, so finally I settled in this 2-way, but I always remember the fun times with AN10. Probably some people maybe take the reverse route. So the ideal is hear first but since very few brave souls have this type os projects geographically near, we DIY need to take risks...

Qts of AN 10 says, it never sounds good in OB. And then you compare mistaken design to Troel's TQWT...
Actualy AN 10 should work better in TQWT...
 
Qts of AN 10 says, it never sounds good in OB. And then you compare mistaken design to Troel's TQWT...
Actualy AN 10 should work better in TQWT...
Yes, I believe this, because woofers with rising response can benefit with TQWT's. The JA8008 have some rising response to midrange. So a correctly designed TQWT will provide some "additional gain" so compensates for this response behavior.
And for most modern little/very small OB designs, the AN rising response add with OB rising response, so results is challenging.
Buit in that period I have got the "OB bug" I have only this AN and I tried with them. One thing was different in my OB trial: is very huge (like 1.6 meters x 0.8m :eek: , and with deep wings!), with first gain peak at little less than 100Hz, needing little EQ for bass. Surprising results here.
Nowadays this AN is with one friend of mine and he uses a 100L bass reflex, and I noted a little LESS bass than in my giant OB. But is not a fair comparision due to different ambients.
 
Qts of AN 10 says, it never sounds good in OB. And then you compare mistaken design to Troel's TQWT...
Actualy AN 10 should work better in TQWT...

My AN15 is in kind of OB, really an open backed cabinet like a guitar amplifier :eek:

But it sounds very good. I think the 15" driver is somewhat special.
 
My AN15 is in kind of OB, really an open backed cabinet like a guitar amplifier :eek:

But it sounds very good. I think the 15" driver is somewhat special.
Two things comes to mind
1)Qts of 15" about 0.5, Qts of 10" about 0.3
2)If you have tube amp, especialy low powered SE it increse Qts of your 15" ANs and it became listanable.
A also tried my 12" in OB, just to check how many musical information it loses in cab, but its sound awful.
I also use various few watts tube amps from 6s45p single stage, to dc coupled 45, 2a3 etc.
I found nirvana to much critical to components compared to other fullrangers.
If you have any electrolytic cap in your amp AN always let you know about it :)
 
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