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Old 17th October 2015, 01:45 AM   #1
beto1 is offline beto1  Chile
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Default Philips AD12202 M15

Hello,
someone tried the AD12202 M15 version? I only got info from the M4/M8 version. A friend is offering me a pair of the 15 ohms version. I wonder if will be worth for using in an open baffle arrangement with my 300B SET amp.
any comment will be welcomed.
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Old 19th October 2015, 07:36 PM   #2
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15 ohms are better for 300b set it would be best if You had 15ohm output but 8ohm will also do the job
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Old 19th October 2015, 08:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamaDama View Post
15 ohms are better for 300b set it would be best if You had 15ohm output but 8ohm will also do the job
Hello DamaDama,
I only have 8 and 4 ohms taps from the output transformers. In this situation, could be better 15 than 8 ohm? As far as I know, if I increase the impedance on the speaker side putting 15 ohms instead of 8, it will be reflected on the OPT side, increasing it impedance. But also will decrease the current on the OPT and speakers side.
So, my doubt is, more impedance both sides, less current on both sides, could be good sound sake?
Regards

Last edited by beto1; 19th October 2015 at 08:44 PM.
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Old 19th October 2015, 08:28 PM   #4
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FYI: Amplifier Output Impedance

Well, it's my philosophy since the thermal power [harmonic] distortion threshold is higher, but some others disagree, or at least seem to prefer this added 'richness' it can add to the recording.

GM
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Old 19th October 2015, 10:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beto1 View Post
Hello DamaDama,
I only have 8 and 4 ohms taps from the output transformers. In this situation, could be better 15 than 8 ohm? As far as I know, if I increase the impedance on the speaker side putting 15 ohms instead of 8, it will be reflected on the OPT side, increasing it impedance. But also will decrease the current on the OPT and speakers side.
So, my doubt is, more impedance both sides, less current on both sides, could be good sound sake?
Regards
They will sound less loud but only just a little bit. I've got two 15Ohm Tonsil GDS 31-21/5 elyptical speakers mounted into stupid easy OB powered with 2x2W ECL86 SE with 6 and 15 ohm outputs.

They sound superb in both 6 and 15 ohm connection but 15ohm gives them some better sound. They perform better near resonant freqeuency which is 45Hz. Generally I can say that everything below 200Hz performs better.

Heard them also with similar ECL86 with 8 and 15 Ohm outputs and had the same feelings.

If You'd have a chance to hear the difference between M15 and M8 versions driven the same way (like connected to 8Ohm output) and mounted the same way that would be great.

Regards
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Old 20th October 2015, 03:43 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM View Post
FYI: Amplifier Output Impedance

Well, it's my philosophy since the thermal power [harmonic] distortion threshold is higher, but some others disagree, or at least seem to prefer this added 'richness' it can add to the recording.
GM
thanks for the link.
can you elaborate more on your philosophy?
cheers
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Old 20th October 2015, 03:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamaDama View Post
They will sound less loud but only just a little bit. I've got two 15Ohm Tonsil GDS 31-21/5 elyptical speakers mounted into stupid easy OB powered with 2x2W ECL86 SE with 6 and 15 ohm outputs.

They sound superb in both 6 and 15 ohm connection but 15ohm gives them some better sound. They perform better near resonant freqeuency which is 45Hz. Generally I can say that everything below 200Hz performs better.
Ok. The missing part on my first post is about the output voltage that is lowered when using a higher impedance than the impedance on the transformers secondary taps. But it seems that it can do a good thing on the low frequencies typical drop impedances. However it is a little different if your output transformers already has a 16 ohm tap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DamaDama View Post
If You'd have a chance to hear the difference between M15 and M8 versions driven the same way (like connected to 8Ohm output) and mounted the same way that would be great.
Regards
Unfortunately, the only way to do that is acquiring a pair of M8 also. Here, these drivers are far more hard to find than in europe-
regards
B
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Old 20th October 2015, 05:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by beto1 View Post
thanks for the link.
can you elaborate more on your philosophy?
cheers
You're welcome!

Not much to elaborate on, I mean the more current a speaker draws, the quicker its VC heats up enough to increase its resistance, raising Qts, lowering efficiency, which in turn alters its frequency response/harmonic structure [timing].

GM
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Old 29th October 2015, 03:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GM View Post
You're welcome!

Not much to elaborate on, I mean the more current a speaker draws, the quicker its VC heats up enough to increase its resistance, raising Qts, lowering efficiency, which in turn alters its frequency response/harmonic structure [timing].
GM
Hi GM,
how to calculate exactly the efficiency decrease? This driver has someting like 101 Db as a reference.
My amp has 2K5 ohm primary, so connected to the 8 ohms tab, will reflect 4687.5 ohms (312.5 ratio).
Cheers
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Old 29th October 2015, 03:48 AM   #10
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Greets!

Ugh , it's been decades since I did the math and no longer have the docs I wrote/posted or even any of the thread links.

Anyway, nowadays folks [me] just use WinISD, Hornresp or similar to plot them by increasing series resistance or if you know the heat rise temp, just use it in WinISD Pro 0.7 or any other program[s] with the option: https://twitter.com/suurvisiiri/stat...65715740413952

GM
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