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Old 16th July 2015, 07:26 AM   #1
sdep777 is offline sdep777  United States
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Default Full Range for me is now 10,000 Hz & below

My Hearing test revealed that I am unable to hear beyond 10,000 HZ. Actually I could not hear 9,000 HZ either and since Music is said to only go out to about 5,000 HZ and not much of any music will be at 7,000 HZ & above ...................

Then it occurs to me that it is pointless to be limiting my choice of Full Range drivers to those units that only go above 10,000 HZ. This opens up many,many more drivers to choose from to create speaker systems with. and I would guess that I would probably realize as much enjoyment from my speakers at a 9,000 HZ or 10,000 HZ top end as I would if they went out to 15000 HZ & above.

So if anyone is using 5 " or 6.5 " units I would be interested in knowing the drivers you are using.

Steve -
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Old 16th July 2015, 07:29 AM   #2
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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how does live music sound to you? - does it seem "dull" ? - you may still benefit from downward sidebands from high harmonics and good power response in the treble - with old opera I could enjoy say a BOSS $10 6.5" on a cardboard baffle just fine
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Old 16th July 2015, 07:43 AM   #3
sdep777 is offline sdep777  United States
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just seems to me that it would make sense to include my own hearing limitations to the equation .

I cannot "remember" the difference when my hearing was better ...far too subtle .
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Old 16th July 2015, 08:00 AM   #4
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Hmm, I lost my message while quoting Freddi at the very end.
It's a very old story: why do I need a system that can go 20-20000 when
the higher note from an instrument cannot reach 10000 ?

Audiophiles say that they want to hear the air between the instruments.
I'd call it microphone air hiss and I like it.

The system is already full of low-pass filters, so don't limit the BW at the very end. Modern tweeters can have a good off-axys response ( and that's useful for stereo, uh, Freddi ?? ) well beyond 20000 ...
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Old 16th July 2015, 12:01 PM   #5
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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You will love the Dayton PA130-8. Very nice mid range, great sensitivity. Don't let the $18 price or ugly looks fool you.
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Old 16th July 2015, 01:21 PM   #6
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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With sine waves I couldn't get past 14000 Hz... but I once tried warble tones instead of pure sine wave and that showed me I could even hear out to 17000 Hz that way...
So don't give up on the high parts yet, you could still benefit from it.
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Old 16th July 2015, 01:40 PM   #7
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My hearing's pretty bad, so I was fitted whith hearing aids a couple years ago. Before the hearing aids, my system sounded very good to me. With hearing aids, it sounds even better. I say this because the hearing aids are there to boost the upper range of voice frequency. They don't go very high as far as music is concerned. However, they make a big difference in the sound quality of music, to me.
Even though you may not hear much above 9-10K, I believe there is still something to be said for having higher frequencies present. Typically, it's not that you don't hear the sound, it's that it just needs to be louder to hear it.
I don't know how high would make a difference to you with the FR of a speaker, but I wouldn't discount frequencies above the 10K range.
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Old 16th July 2015, 02:58 PM   #8
GM is offline GM  United States
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FWIW, in Bell Labs' early research they built an anechoic chamber large enough to measure all things human hearing perception related up to, and including, a 75 piece orchestra and concluded that for PA [speech] apps, 200-4,500 cps [Hz] sufficed, noting that including lower frequencies better preserved tonal balance/naturalness, whereas for vocal group and orchestra playback through single voice coil drivers, 75-7,000 cps was adequate and for multiple driver speakers, 50-11,000 cps offered a sufficiently 'full'/'true' reproduction.

Of course we know there's a lot of BW on both ends of the 50-11 kHz BW spectrum, but human hearing perception being what it is, using 'FR' drivers over a > 75-7 kHz BW or multi-way over 50-11 kHz will make for a more life-like sounding reproduction if the recording has it and one's hearing is youthful enough since the lower the fundamental, the wider its harmonic BW, but our hearing acuity at these extremes is too poor to actually be able to discern what's been accurately reproduced Vs a driver's 'doubling' down low and break-up modes up high distortion, euphonic though it may sound.

In short, if we listen to a reproduction that extends somewhat below 50 Hz 'flat' and above 11 kHz, then it may sound 'dull' to someone who can't hear beyond 11 kHz and since max speech intelligibility requires a speaker only be flat from 125-4 kHz, rolling off at 3dB/octave IIRC, then limiting a 'FR' driver to a max of ~62.5-8 kHz F3 and adding a 'sub' and 'super tweeter' system for 'fill' makes a lot of sense to me even if one's HF hearing is rolled off, i.e. add an octave down low, add one up high to maintain the proper tonal balance: There's life above 20 kilohertz! A survey of musical instrument spectra to 102.4 kHz

Loud is Beautiful if it's Clean! As always though, the usual disclaimers apply to this post's contents.
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Old 16th July 2015, 04:44 PM   #9
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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I've said this before - I think there are probably a few other types of permanent or temporary hearing "disorders" - beyond simple HF loss - that can impact how any individual perceives live or reproduced music on any given day.

Tinnitus that can oscillate between a gentle susurration to a raging waterfall, for example.
"Perception is a highly non-linear function" - Earl Geddes
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Old 16th July 2015, 04:59 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sdep777 View Post
My Hearing test revealed that I am unable to hear beyond 10,000 HZ. Actually I could not hear 9,000 HZ either and since Music is said to only go out to about 5,000 HZ and not much of any music will be at 7,000 HZ & above ...................

Do keep in mind that there are 2 hearing systems. The measures taken were FR, The less talked about time response system does not degrade near as fast so limiting the HF response to 10k may find you wanting.

But the only way to know is to try, you may find drivers with limited top just fine. Most of the music is in the midrange.

2 known to have less top that are worth looking at are the Mark Audio CHP-70.2 and the CHN-70 (a wonky FR specifically for the Japanese market it is targeted for). At a higher price others like the TB W5-1611, and the Fostex FE108/168eS might suit as well.

There are a lot more.

community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
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