How low can a 12P Pensil go? - diyAudio
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Old 2nd July 2015, 05:59 PM   #1
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Default How low can a 12P Pensil go?

Hey everyone,

I'm currently building a pair of small BRs for a pair of 10Ps and someone I know wants me to build a couple of fullrangers for them. I'm wondering which enclosure gets the best low end response out of a pair of 12Ps.

I've been looking at the Pensil series (they seem about the right size) but can't seem to find any technical specifications for either the standard or super Pensil 12.2P. Does anyone know how low F3 is for these enclosures?

Will they go lower than Bob Brines A12-M12?
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Old 2nd July 2015, 06:17 PM   #2
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Monty,

Surprising as it may sound, the Alp 10.x (both metal and paper) go lower than the Alp 12P. The Alp 12P sounds more dynamic and is a tad more efficient.

Regarding M12-A12 and Super Pensil, IIRC they both go into the 40s in room; very close - the SP might have a bit more gain in the mid bass, the M12-A12 slight edge on the low end... The M12-A12 footprint is much smaller and from memory, slightly more forward sounding. The Super Pensil 12.2P was a tad more laid back with the stuffing that I had, and quite a sizeable cabinet.

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Old 2nd July 2015, 06:32 PM   #3
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Yeah I was thinking about simply using another pair of 10Ps but the person I'm going to build these speakers for likes to listen on the louder side of moderate levels and also likes full orchestral music.

I remember reading elsewhere on this forum that the 12P could better handle louder and more musically complex programme material better than the 10P due to its larger size which meant less excursion and therefore less FM distortion.

I'm really looking for a number here in terms of which enclosure could better reproduce 42Hz (the lowest note in orchestral music).
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Old 2nd July 2015, 07:05 PM   #4
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Pensil12.2 sims near 35 Hz F10 anechoic (F3 is a meaningless number as far as what we hear, a term that is an artifact of the filter theory used). In room they will very likely go lower (but room modes will mean lumpier response)

dave
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Old 2nd July 2015, 07:14 PM   #5
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Monty,

Does something like the Avebury agree with you?

Woden Design | Avebury

Dave can comment on the performance of Woden back-loaded horns; I haven't listened to any of these.
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Old 2nd July 2015, 07:19 PM   #6
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They are good… they do need a big room.

dave
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Old 2nd July 2015, 07:34 PM   #7
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Could you explain how F3 is meaningless?

The Wodens look cool but they're way too big. I don't want to build a pair of marriage destroyers!

In terms of F10 then what's the best cabinet. Can the 10P Pensil outperform the 12P in terms of low frequency performance?

To be honest I don't really understand how these enclosures work, I can't seem to find any explanations online. In a BR the 12P manages a 60Hz F3 at best. How do these enclosures manage to get lower?

In this application power isn't too big a constraint (75W RMS PC available). Just wondering whether to choose the 12P or 10P now .
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Old 2nd July 2015, 07:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monty78pig View Post
Could you explain how F3 is meaningless?
Meaningless wrt what we hear… Toole showed that with scientific experiment.

And analytically it does nottell us anything… take a reflex box and a sealed bix with same F3, the sealed box goes considerably lower as it is rolling off much slower. The shape of the roll-off is important.

Much more useful to use F6 and F10.

3dB (F3) is "just noticeable". F10 is half the volume.

dave
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Old 2nd July 2015, 07:44 PM   #9
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Monty,

For low end performance, I feel the Alp 10 is more suitable... and beside the Alp 10P paper, the Alp 10.3 metal is an option you can consider.

Cabinet choices - Brines M10-A10 or Pensils for MLTL, FH-XL for BLH.
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Old 2nd July 2015, 07:47 PM   #10
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Fair enough. I tend to think of things in terms of power and conventional electronic filters so F3 seemed more sensible to me .

On a completely unrelated note, what would be the advantages of the Super Pensil 12 instead of the standard one?
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