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But does the Tysen arrangement, i.e. with woofers back-to-back across the width of the enclosure, each one facing sideways at 90 deg. to the full-range driver - really be modeled as a WTW ? I don't think the dispersion of a traditional WTW would be the same
Hi Bigun you could be right being skeptical, but why not we can hope for with a relative low XO point they will raidiate into full space say mid-tweeter roll off is Bessel 2nd order at 300Hz and woofers roll off are the steeper 4th order BW at 300Hz, of course you right we now talk 90º flipped config being horizontal dispersion instead of vertical dispersion but that doesn't change on the power response error into a room that that a XO region will develop if spacing is not over average tight.
Bigun and xrk971,
InOtIn shared http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ctivity-dispersion-beamwidth.html#post4656518.
Filling in data as a 132mm woofer diameter and 62,5mm mid-tweeter diameter gives below beam width (Infinite baffle), and below those setting listening angle as 90º show their beaming power gain.
Third below is traced beaming power gain curves into REW overlay with Harsch XO points at 300Hz.
InOtIn shared http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ctivity-dispersion-beamwidth.html#post4656518.
Filling in data as a 132mm woofer diameter and 62,5mm mid-tweeter diameter gives below beam width (Infinite baffle), and below those setting listening angle as 90º show their beaming power gain.
Third below is traced beaming power gain curves into REW overlay with Harsch XO points at 300Hz.
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I've got a set built, finally. However, my woofer is a Dayton Audio RS225P-8A; paper cone. I used the same crossover for a starting point. I want to run it for a while then measure it. Then I'll try to so some tweaking. My full-range driver is a Fostex FF85WK8 eNabled. I left the cabinet sealed and enclosed the Fostex in a 4 inch 6 inch tube.
So Far, no complaints. I only listened to it in my garage through a Bluetooth KAB-250 amp, though. I hope to get it in my office tomorrow, where my amp is a Dayton APA-150 and my pre-amp is a Kenwood Basic C1. My source is an iPhone streaming Pandora or a FiiO X1.
I'll post more as I listen to it and run it through my Omni-Mic.
Mike
So Far, no complaints. I only listened to it in my garage through a Bluetooth KAB-250 amp, though. I hope to get it in my office tomorrow, where my amp is a Dayton APA-150 and my pre-amp is a Kenwood Basic C1. My source is an iPhone streaming Pandora or a FiiO X1.
I'll post more as I listen to it and run it through my Omni-Mic.
Mike
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Nice work, Mike. The paper cone driver is more sensitive and will probably work just fine. It has less breakup peaks so should sound even smoother. Note that you want the full range driver to be about 3in farther away than the woofer. To accomplish this, I simply put the woofer on top and full range driver underneath. This made it transient perfect. You could run it with full range on top as well but things like rim shots on drum sets sound more accurate the other way. Please keep us posted.
Hi X,
You're saying it would be better to move the full range driver 3 more inches further away from the listener than the woofer? I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying, but I'm all ears.
Is there a photo or drawing of what you mean in one of the posts. I'd certainly like to try what you're thinking.
Thanks for the help!
Mike
You're saying it would be better to move the full range driver 3 more inches further away from the listener than the woofer? I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying, but I'm all ears.
Is there a photo or drawing of what you mean in one of the posts. I'd certainly like to try what you're thinking.
Thanks for the help!
Mike
Just flip speaker upside down (this naturally makes the woofer closer to your ears assuming your ears are above the woofer centerline in height) In any case, try to minimize the center-to-center distance between the full range and the woofer. That helps keep the sound source closer to a virtual point source.
Here is a photo of what I mean:
Perceval has it right-on.
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New Passive XO
I am testing out a new passive XO using high quality components (polypropylene film caps, non inductive audio grade resistors, and air core inductor). Sounds very nice, I think the upper range clarity increased as well as imaging and sound stage. This XO is actually being built for a customer and after hearing it, I think I will get one for myself. I was using a bipolar electrolytic for the 50uF and bypassed with a 10uF MKT film.
I am testing out a new passive XO using high quality components (polypropylene film caps, non inductive audio grade resistors, and air core inductor). Sounds very nice, I think the upper range clarity increased as well as imaging and sound stage. This XO is actually being built for a customer and after hearing it, I think I will get one for myself. I was using a bipolar electrolytic for the 50uF and bypassed with a 10uF MKT film.
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Harsch is only for DSP implementation like miniDSP as it requires large delays that are not possible to achieve with passive XO. The passive is transient perfect - even more so than Harsch.
Good eyes but not a Karlsonator - check out my KazBa thread sometime... Yes plywood and dual Tang Band W5-876SE woofers.
High quality passive XO parts like 61uF of 250v polypropylene audio caps (even Dayton brand) and a Jantzen air core inductors cost just as much as a miniDSP.
Good eyes but not a Karlsonator - check out my KazBa thread sometime...
Yes plywood and dual Tang Band W5-876SE woofers.High quality passive XO parts like 61uF of 250v polypropylene audio caps (even Dayton brand) and a Jantzen air core inductors cost just as much as a miniDSP.
Yes, the crossover is 1st order on both, with a Zobel filter on 10F plus some padding. Here it is redrawn with values currently used in the above pictured XO. When used with the woofer on top and speaker on 30 in tall stand, the path difference from mid-tweet to the ear is delayed just enough to make it transient perfect.
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I have used it successfully with TC9FD, TG9FD (8ohm), and FF85WK. Basically any 85-87dB sensitive 8ohm 3.5in full range can work. The 4.7R resistor across the +/- terminals of the full range controls the level of padding or attenuation relative to the woofer. So for a brighter presentation, make it larger value, in small 0.51ohm increments (add series resistance) and adjust to taste. Basically we are trying to pad an 85dB driver down to about 82dB, which is the sensitivity of the RS225-8 at bass frequencies (100Hz and below) after baffle step losses.
May I ask what amp you were using? Probably a low distortion "Blameless" style LTP input Class AB with dominant H3?
Not everyone likes a driver with the flattest response and low distortion. Lifeless and boring usually means, not sprinkled with some peaks and higher than ppm levels of second harmonic distortion
This is the 10F/4424 - which is different, but similar.I am listening to my 10F/8424 right now with a zero feedback SE Class A amp (MoFo) and with a low distortion Aksa Lender preamp, and it sounds great. Not lifeless or boring - but then the amplifier has a classic SE Class A harmonic signature of 0.2% THD, with predominantly H2 and a little H3, so the excitement comes from the amp.
Spent last day listening to these speakers with the new crossover shown above. Very nice - a definite increase in dynamics and spatial imaging. I just ordered my own set of identical parts for the XO as the above ones are going to someone else.
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