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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
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Old 4th October 2017, 06:26 PM   #731
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
What do you guys think of a CX150-8 XKi?

The Daytonator - PA130-8X
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Old 8th October 2017, 08:23 PM   #732
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
on another forum, there was a bass reflex build for Dayton's PA460-8 18 inch - about 9 cubic foot internal volume and tuned low.

I tried to compare it to a 1.2X Acoustic Control K-coupler which would be about K15's bulk https://i.imgur.com/iijQCDc.jpg

I bet there's a good XKi alignment for that woofer which would maintain good punch, go "low enough" (maybe 40 or a bit lower) and allow a box that's not as tall as K15 as the poster of that project wants to use his helper woofer box as a stand for his Fane 12" fullrange.
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Old 9th October 2017, 12:20 PM   #733
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
Give me a few days to look at this in Akabak. I am a bit busy right now with some deadlines.
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Old 9th October 2017, 10:32 PM   #734
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
no hurry - does look llike a nice 18 for the sale price of $90

Def_Driver "Dayton Pro PA460-8" | 18 inch woofer Xmax 6mm, Vas 14.19 cubic feet
SD=1241.4
Fs=28.3
Mms=171
Qms=11.2
Qes=0.34
Re=5.6
BL=22.3 T/m
Le=3.9mH
Vas=401.86
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Old 14th October 2017, 11:44 PM   #735
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
hey X - might there be a better XKi solution for my 15pzb40 then putting it into a Karlflex or 115BK?

whether MMJ's kluge for 115BK = "real" = ?? - curve wise and
Z peak wise, it seems to concur pretty well - not sure about spl (maybe ?) as its showing
some advantage over the offset driver K box.

I have a 115BK but not sure if physically whether a 15pzb40 would
fit due to frame size and driver depth. 115BK is only 12" deep inside between the aperture and back panel.

Sine drum tuning charts show a 50Hz tuning for a 24" diameter kick drum, it would be nice
to have response flat to about that point. A lot of kicks, particular in past time, seem tuned higher with the large
floor tom being the lowest "note"

Def_Driver "B&C 15PZB40" |15 inch woofer Xmax 8MM Qts 0.29
Sd=855cm2
Fs=43Hz
MMs=123g
Qms=7.4
Qes=0.3
Re=5.3
BL=24.3Tm
Le=2.4mH
Vas=112L


Click the image to open in full size.

although results may be "mellow", I think this woofer could reach a 1" format K-tube
whereas my 15tbx40 (like 15tbx100) drops off after 1K.
Click the image to open in full size.

Scaling 115BK by 1.2X gives
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by freddi; 15th October 2017 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 15th October 2017, 01:18 AM   #736
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
here's the little Karflex - is there an XKi alignment for the same/similar bulk?

would there be too much coloration introduced by the relatively small aperture?


Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by freddi; 15th October 2017 at 01:22 AM.
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Old 15th October 2017, 08:36 PM   #737
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
apparently the lossy inductance model isn't appropriate for 15pzb40. I have 2035H which have very low inductance and nice midrange which should be suitable for a helper woofer (or multi-way) - also M151, designed for musical instrument work with eta-zero ~6.5%
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Old Yesterday, 03:27 PM   #738
bonjonno is offline bonjonno  United States
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Default new life for old vifa 5" M13SG-09-08?

X- I have some speakers that were a madisound suggested theater combo in the 90's and they never impressed me much musically. But the vifa woofers had a great reputation and I'd like to try them in an XKi to see if new life can be breathed into them. Can you suggest an alignment for one 5" per box?
Thanks.

5" woofer VIFA M13SG-09-08, vc height 10mm, gap height 6mm, nom pwr 35W
Sd=80cm
fs=54 Hz
Mms=6.5 g
QMs=1.5
Qes=0.46
Qts 0.35
Re=5.6
BL=5.2Tm
Le=0.7mH
Vas=12L
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Old Yesterday, 03:54 PM   #739
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonjonno View Post
X- I have some speakers that were a madisound suggested theater combo in the 90's and they never impressed me much musically. But the vifa woofers had a great reputation and I'd like to try them in an XKi to see if new life can be breathed into them. Can you suggest an alignment for one 5" per box?
Thanks.

5" woofer VIFA M13SG-09-08, vc height 10mm, gap height 6mm, nom pwr 35W
Sd=80cm
fs=54 Hz
Mms=6.5 g
QMs=1.5
Qes=0.46
Qts 0.35
Re=5.6
BL=5.2Tm
Le=0.7mH
Vas=12L
Hi Bonjonno,

I just ran a simulation and this driver can make a nice XKi. Try making a 7in wide box x 12in tall x 9in deep. Pleasing proportions, no? That's about 12.4liter internal, once you subtract the vent and driver volumes you will be at about 12 liters design goal. Make the angled driver mounting board angled back so the setback from front to the vertex is 3.6in. Make the vent 0.50in deep by 7.0in wide (width of box) and extend it back 7.5in. You mayneed to wrap the vent around the corner in order to give clearance to the front of about 1in spacing between vent opening and front K aperture. This will give you an F3 freq if 55Hz and 90dB sensitvity. It will sound quite good on kick drums. You can mount one of these low profile 1in silk dome tweeters from Dayton in a small hole cutout on the aperture (offset) to one side of the wings (or right in middle above the aperture vertex if you prefer).

Dayton Audio ND25FN-4 1" Silk Dome Neodymium Tweeter Element 4 Ohm

The woofer has a natural roll-off at 2kHz so let's use that as the crossover for the tweeter. Just put a 24uF (two 47uF electrolytics - back to back in bipolar confg should be close enough, by pass with 0.47uF filmcap) and add about 3ohm to 5ohm (adjust to taste) series resistor to pad down the tweeter by about -5dB. This will give you a very natural sounding and time accurate 1st order XO. If you want to improve the performance of the XO a bit more, try adding a series 0.5mH air core for the woofer. This will reduce power sent to the woofer voice coils above 2kHz. Something like this should work:

Dayton Audio 0.50mH 18 AWG Perfect Layer Inductor Crossover Coil

Here is response of the woofer before baffle step loss of about -5dB. So it should be an 85dB sensitive overall system:

XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass-xki-vifa-bonjonno-png

Note that these are very rough passive crossovers from off-the-top-of-my-head, so it may not be perfect, but should sound quite decent.

If you choose to mount the tweeter in a central hole in the middle at the top of the K aperture board, a good name as you suggest is "XKiClops".

I hope you build it.

Cheers,
X
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Old Yesterday, 03:58 PM   #740
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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XKi - X's ab initio Karlson 6th Order Bandpass
Quote:
Originally Posted by freddi View Post
here's the little Karflex - is there an XKi alignment for the same/similar bulk?

would there be too much coloration introduced by the relatively small aperture?


Click the image to open in full size.
Hi Freddi,
This is mostly a sub-woofer alignment so I think coloration was not a consideration. Using full range is not advised as it would definitely, be colored. But maybe mid-bass up to 200Hz is OK?
X
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