Been spending the last couple of days looking at full range designs for a k-12 tube kit. Tonnes of info but I think I'm more confused now than I was when I started.
First I'm looking for a a speaker to stay below 24" tall, and something different than a standard bass reflex cabinet.
I stumbled across some builds for the TABAQ while looking up back-load horn designs, which look really nice but youtube doesn't seem to have much for listening, and looking at the sensitivity might struggle on a 8w amp, unless somebody can chime in.
Fostex has me rather interested. I've seen some vids on the fe103 and the fe126, but am either too tired or am typing in the wrong key words. I can't seem to find much information pertaining to designs for cabinets. Which brings me to a question. Can you put a Fostex fe103 into a TABAQ designed cabinet?
I don't have experience in designing a ground up enclosure, so I've been looking at the tried and tested stuff. Anybody able to push me in the right direction or comment on Fostex in TABAQ box?
First I'm looking for a a speaker to stay below 24" tall, and something different than a standard bass reflex cabinet.
I stumbled across some builds for the TABAQ while looking up back-load horn designs, which look really nice but youtube doesn't seem to have much for listening, and looking at the sensitivity might struggle on a 8w amp, unless somebody can chime in.
Fostex has me rather interested. I've seen some vids on the fe103 and the fe126, but am either too tired or am typing in the wrong key words. I can't seem to find much information pertaining to designs for cabinets. Which brings me to a question. Can you put a Fostex fe103 into a TABAQ designed cabinet?
I don't have experience in designing a ground up enclosure, so I've been looking at the tried and tested stuff. Anybody able to push me in the right direction or comment on Fostex in TABAQ box?
The FE126 can drop into a folded Voigt pipe that was around here a while back. Think it was the Reference thread. Was about the size of a large shoebox.
Lots of output with low power (I used a 6EM7 SET), and enough low-end for girl+guitar type music.
Add BSC if you're not so keen on the Fostex FE's signature sound, but it really wasn't bad for what it was. I prefer the likes of Bon Jovi and other loud stuff, so had to go multiway.
Chris
Lots of output with low power (I used a 6EM7 SET), and enough low-end for girl+guitar type music.
Add BSC if you're not so keen on the Fostex FE's signature sound, but it really wasn't bad for what it was. I prefer the likes of Bon Jovi and other loud stuff, so had to go multiway.
Chris
That's kinda my problem. I listen to just about everything from country to classical depending on my mood. My main system is changing to an htguide Natalie P MTM design so I'm hoping to keep the majority of my listening on that. This will be the bedroom system with sort of the same listening but not as much.
I spent a couple of extra hours past when I wanted to go to bed researching the Karlson design after I stumbled upon that. Looks like the Karlson 6 with a fe166 might be a good option. Not overly big but continues with a high sensitivity driver.
I then looked at some Mark Audio drivers, and the 12p caught my interest. Will have to see what's out there for that driver.
beaner; to get the most from 12P requires rather large enclosures, and unless its sensitivity is an absolute must - something I'd assume to not be the case in a bedroom system - if you're considering any of the Alpairs, either of the 10s should be worth looking at. They can work quite well in much smaller boxes and deliver deeper bass.
At an even more compact size - almost directly comparable to the FE126 in fact, take a look at the CHN70 - and don't let its price fool you, I find it to be rather an over achiever.
There are lots of already tried and true enclosure designs for Mark's entire line, ranging from compact desktop sized BR / labyrinths, to floorstanding MLTLs and BLH.
At an even more compact size - almost directly comparable to the FE126 in fact, take a look at the CHN70 - and don't let its price fool you, I find it to be rather an over achiever.
There are lots of already tried and true enclosure designs for Mark's entire line, ranging from compact desktop sized BR / labyrinths, to floorstanding MLTLs and BLH.
8w tube amp. I figured I'd need something at least 91db to make some decent sound. The bedroom is rather large too. room is 13x19. I'll have a look at your suggestion, but more and more I'm drawn to those Karlsons.
12p Super Pencils in the bedroom?
jeff
indeed would be a conversation starter - "not in our room you don't, honey"
That's not really that large a room, and there are lots of folks in this forum quite happy with decent sound from simpler enclosures, drivers rated under 90dB and that same amount of power - or less - but of course your expectations and mileage may vary.
You really don't need 91dB@1w to get a decent amount of sound out. 95% of my listening is done at <1w/ch through some Behringer B2031Ps, which come in around the mid-80s IIRC. For full disclosure, there's also a 800w 2x12" subwoofer, but I've no idea how much power that's using - the amp only has clip lights.
A member called Toppsy here did a pair of standmount ported cabinets for Alpair 12Ps (I think). I reckon they'd be perfect for what you're after.
Chris
A member called Toppsy here did a pair of standmount ported cabinets for Alpair 12Ps (I think). I reckon they'd be perfect for what you're after.
Chris
The FE126en has a low Qts suitable for back loaded horns and will not achieve low bass in a TABAQ like MLTL. You want a moderate Qts driver circa 0.4 to 0.6 to have best performance in MLTL. If you want higher sensitivity with correct Qts for a TABAQ look at Faital Pro 3FE22 or 3FE25. Probably a drop in replacement. You could go four inch 4FE32 but no need to.
Those 12p stand mounters look nice, but wonder how the low end extension will be. I don't mind a bit bigger box. Spent the last day reading the karlson threads. Think I might toss a FE166en into a Karlsonator 6 cabinet. Those speakers just look neat.
Did you find a sim of a FE166eN in a K'nator ? I have done so many I don't remember. Let me know if you need a sim to determine the scaling for a build.
They're useful down to about 45Hz in-room.
The FE166 can be nice, but I'd argue it needs help at both ends IMHO. The 12P standmounts get away with much more - a good supertweeter for >10kHz can be nice to have, but isn't entirely necessary.
Chris
I don't think you've done one for the FE166en but there's one for the FE206en. I found gregb's google site that has build specs for the FE166en, and am sure there's a graph somewhere. If you don't mind modelling it one more time that'd be super. Might make my decision if it comes out good.
chris661 said:
Chris, by "gets away with more" what do you mean?
I meant you get a much wider frequency range out of it. Probably bad phrasing on my part.
With the useful available cone excursion from the Alpair, there's a decent heft to the low end when called for.
Its not a subwoofer, nor should it ever be compared to one, but its the closest to full-range from a single cone I've ever heard.
Chris
With the useful available cone excursion from the Alpair, there's a decent heft to the low end when called for.
Its not a subwoofer, nor should it ever be compared to one, but its the closest to full-range from a single cone I've ever heard.
Chris
FWIW, here is my plan for the Karlsonator 6. (download scale plans under 'More')
The cabinet design should compensate for any help on the bottom. The top might be a little soft, but that would be a matter of taste. I haven't built it. Might have my kluged sim graph somewhere if I look for it, but xrk has a better model. I went for slightly higher tuning intentionally, as I don't like extended bass at the expense of a thin and forward sound.
The cabinet design should compensate for any help on the bottom. The top might be a little soft, but that would be a matter of taste. I haven't built it. Might have my kluged sim graph somewhere if I look for it, but xrk has a better model. I went for slightly higher tuning intentionally, as I don't like extended bass at the expense of a thin and forward sound.
It'd be interesting to see the sim for that. I found your google site and have downloaded the box design already but don't remember seeing a plot for this with the fe166en.
chris661 said:
Well I'll keep the 12p as a runner as well then. I downloaded the lspcad demo so I'm going to try and figure out how to use it. I'd like to model it in a bit bigger cabenit, maybe something other than a BR style box. I've built BR so many times now whether it's a sub or full tower so I want to venture into the unknown.
They will not have deep bass. The sims in WinISD are born out in real live. These drivers need to be in a big box (MLTL) to get down. In a 20L BR box (tuned to 58Hz), F3 is about 59Hz, with F10 @ ~45Hz. You'd need to augment the bottom end with a small sub or two.
jeff
Not sure how accurate unibox is, and if I did it right but with a 25l box with a 6.35cm port 11.11cm long calculates an F3 of 50Hz. Be interesting to punch this into lspcad and see what the whole range looks like. Unibox looks to be primarily for lower range 1k and below. Time to youtube lspcad how to's.
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