Philips AD-12100/M8 in BIB? - diyAudio
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Old 17th December 2014, 03:47 AM   #1
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Default Philips AD-12100/M8 in BIB?

So newbie question (still working what it all means).

Have a chance to buy a pair of these drivers and have been reading about BIBs. I kow many people use them in OB, Bass reflex and onkens, but how would these Philips drivers go in a BIB?

I found these values on another forum:

Modèle : AD12100 M8
Type : double cône, suspension petits plis, aimant ferrite
Puissance nominale : 25 W
Puissance maxi : 40 W
Bande passante : 40 – 15 kHz
Fréquence de résonance : 36 Hz
QMS : 2,763
QES : 0,558
QTS : 0,464
VAS : 193,3 l
Mms : 31,6 g
Rendement : 93 dB
Impédance : 8 Ohms
Diamètre bobine : 50 mm
Diamètre ferrite : 133 mm
Diamètre : 314,5 mm
Profondeur du HP : 151,4 mm
Ouverture Baffle : 278 mm
Volume conseillé : 80 L
Entre axe diagonal : 294 m
Poids : 3,2 kg l'unité
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Old 17th December 2014, 10:54 AM   #2
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Fs 36Hz
Re 7,1ohm
Qes 0,558
Qms 2,763

Qts 0,464
Vas 193,3 ltr
Mms 31,6 g
calculated Rms 2,59 kg/s
Spl 93,8 dB
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Old 17th December 2014, 11:03 AM   #3
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Using this:
https://sites.google.com/site/speake...enclosures/bib

I get this:
Driver Brand Philips Driver Model AD-12100/M8 Fs 36 Vas (cu. Ft) 6.82632507 Qts 0.464 Line Length 187.008 Folded Height 93.504 Vb 52.283 Sm 966.227 Depth (internal) 36.966 Width (internal) 26.139 zdriver 40.581 a-b-c 18.483 Conversion
Liters
193.3
Cubic Feet
6.826325073


Cabinet
Wood Width 0.750 Outside Dimensions
Width (external) 27.639 Depth (external) 38.466 Height (external) 94.254
I'm assuming all dimensions are in inches.
So:
Width: 70cm
Depth: 96cm
Height 240 cm

OK - but how would it play?
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Old 17th December 2014, 12:52 PM   #4
Deyan is offline Deyan  Serbia
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I only hope you have large room because this are BIG.I have this drivers also, but i will make "Studio 12" BR boxes(plans are here on diyaudio)
Good luck....
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Old 17th December 2014, 08:19 PM   #5
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Default Sim of AD12100 in BIB

This is a huge speaker: 93.5in tall x 26in wide x 37in deep. Here is the predicted response with the BIB shoved up against a wall (assuming you have tall ceilings). There is no stuffing in these sims so the mids and HF's are higher in predictions than reality.

Freq response at 2.83v and 1m - goes very deep as you would expect from such a large horn but has a rather wide and deep notch around 70Hz. It looks like it still needs a baffle step correction (BSC) circuit:

Click the image to open in full size.

Cone excursion in mm:

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Impedance:

Click the image to open in full size.

If you add a 7ohm and 1.5mH BSC circuite you get this:

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Attached Images
File Type: png BIB-AD12100-Freq-1m.png (42.8 KB, 47 views)
File Type: png BIB-AD12100-Displ.png (36.4 KB, 47 views)
File Type: png BIB-AD12100-Impedance.png (36.2 KB, 47 views)
File Type: png BIB-AD12100-Freq-1m-BSC.png (44.4 KB, 46 views)

Last edited by xrk971; 17th December 2014 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 18th December 2014, 02:08 AM   #6
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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X - how do those TS look in the original Karlson K15? - assuming it has good clarity and extended top, it should sound good
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Old 18th December 2014, 03:35 AM   #7
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddi View Post
X - how do those TS look in the original Karlson K15? - assuming it has good clarity and extended top, it should sound good
The Qts of 0.464 looks too high for a K15, but the sim shows that it can work.

Click the image to open in full size.
Attached Images
File Type: png K15-V3E-AD12100-Freq-1m.png (37.2 KB, 34 views)
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Old 18th December 2014, 05:41 AM   #8
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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I think it practice it will look ~"flat" - I ran Beta15cx in K15 - had to tighten the rear lowpass gap to make it sound right on DAFO's drum beats and drop of "The Beast" - Imageshack lost my graph comparing behavior to a JBL M151

here's Beta15's TS - it was fairly enjoyable in K15 with a 40sq.in. vent


Resonant Frequency (fs) 34 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.54 ohms
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.06mH
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) .58
Mechanical Q (Qms) 7.68
Total Q (Qts) .54
Compliance Equivalent Vol. (Vas) 366.4 Liters/12.94cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 3.0mm
Surface area of Cone (Sd) .08237m2
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Old 18th December 2014, 05:46 AM   #9
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by microdub View Post
.......but how would these Philips drivers go in a BIB?
Just fine, though due to its low Fs and not a 'sub' woofer, I recommend using a higher Fs to calculate the BIB, so that it will place the driver a bit lower and shift the horn's bandwidth [BW] high enough to cover up to at least 80 Hz.

Really, unless one has a high ceiling, the 'stock' 48.78 Hz BIB tuning will work fine for most drivers. Here's a ~typical sim: Terry Cain's BIB -why does it work and does anyone have those Fostex Craft Handbooks?

The sims look really bad, but once mildly damped and up against a wall and especially if corner loaded, it's really a pretty impressive performer.

GM
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Old 18th December 2014, 06:06 AM   #10
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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here's ~ground plane of K15 loaded with the old Beta15 coaxial - you can interpret how much peaking is occurring - there was no ramp-up in the 200Hz region as seen with lower qts speakers - I would think the Phillips to be suitable

Resonant Frequency (fs) 34 Hz
Impedance (Re) 5.54 ohms
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.06mH
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) .58
Mechanical Q (Qms) 7.68
Total Q (Qts) .54
Compliance Equivalent Vol. (Vas) 366.4 Liters/12.94cu. ft.
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax) 3.0mm
Surface area of Cone (Sd) .08237m2

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