It took me about 5 minutes this morning. The drivers were on the waveguides from before. And I have some pipes because I am building these: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/264603-linkwitz-lx-mini-passive-replica.html
This is Visaton FRS 5X in Visaton waveguide installed in 100 mm copper coloured PVC sewer pipe. Adding a piece of sheep wool did remove the exactly sewerish kind of low frequencies, but maybe removed too much other parts of the sound. Probably wadding should be just enough to remove the pipish sound.
It sounds pretty awesome!
As far as I have investigated the waveuides, they work from 1 kHz to about 8 kHz an add about 6 db sensivity, thus the small FRS shuld be relatively flat 1 to 10 kHz and about 88-90 db efficient. - conclusions done with reverse engineering of the Visaton La Belle crossover which I had built for a colleague of mine.
I remembered I had the small Visatons because rcently I had a listen to Pioneer HPM 50 which have absolutely identically looking treble driver. I am pretty sute Visaton had the Pioneer driver in mind when they designed the small FRS 5X's.
I maybe will build a home cinema set with those
There is round version of the waveguides as well.
Highly recommended!
This is Visaton FRS 5X in Visaton waveguide installed in 100 mm copper coloured PVC sewer pipe. Adding a piece of sheep wool did remove the exactly sewerish kind of low frequencies, but maybe removed too much other parts of the sound. Probably wadding should be just enough to remove the pipish sound.
It sounds pretty awesome!
As far as I have investigated the waveuides, they work from 1 kHz to about 8 kHz an add about 6 db sensivity, thus the small FRS shuld be relatively flat 1 to 10 kHz and about 88-90 db efficient. - conclusions done with reverse engineering of the Visaton La Belle crossover which I had built for a colleague of mine.
I remembered I had the small Visatons because rcently I had a listen to Pioneer HPM 50 which have absolutely identically looking treble driver. I am pretty sute Visaton had the Pioneer driver in mind when they designed the small FRS 5X's.
I maybe will build a home cinema set with those
There is round version of the waveguides as well.
Highly recommended!
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Hi, thanks for the interest!
The SQ is definitely above satisfactory, so they are suitable for listening to music.
I made a video and posted it to the Facebook page of my forum: https://www.facebook.com/PenkillerDIY
Directly to video: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=746194082130527&saved
You should listen to it at least through PC speakers with subwoofer or headphones. After 2.03 I play through the big speakers for reference
I posted it to FB as Youtube has threatened me with ban for a similar sound excerpt of Ozzy Ozbourne's "Mama I'm Coming Home" played through another set of DIY speakers, so I don't post music there anymore.
I made a sketch of the idea for the finished speakers using the round version of the waveguides. 90 Hz fb 7.3 L Vb and a 80x200 mm port Now it is satisfactory, I imagine that with a port and a proper enclosure it would be a marvel!
Bulgarian language thread that also has photos of the Pioneer HPM 50 and it's treble driver: 5 ??????? ?????????, ????? ?????? ?????????!
The SQ is definitely above satisfactory, so they are suitable for listening to music.
I made a video and posted it to the Facebook page of my forum: https://www.facebook.com/PenkillerDIY
Directly to video: https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=746194082130527&saved
You should listen to it at least through PC speakers with subwoofer or headphones. After 2.03 I play through the big speakers for reference
I posted it to FB as Youtube has threatened me with ban for a similar sound excerpt of Ozzy Ozbourne's "Mama I'm Coming Home" played through another set of DIY speakers, so I don't post music there anymore.
I made a sketch of the idea for the finished speakers using the round version of the waveguides. 90 Hz fb 7.3 L Vb and a 80x200 mm port
Now it is satisfactory, I imagine that with a port and a proper enclosure it would be a marvel!Bulgarian language thread that also has photos of the Pioneer HPM 50 and it's treble driver: 5 ??????? ?????????, ????? ?????? ?????????!
Attachments
Oh i am not the only one interested in this little fullranger The German Klang & Ton magazine has quite some designs with it. For inspiration:
Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
My idea for this driver would be a small D'appolito floorstander with two 5 inch drivers. X-over 7-900 Hz, first order. And a small conical "waveguide" setting the driver back just enough to make a time delay. Just a small conical 45 degree 16 mm deep "horn" would add the extra dB's needed for the low x-over point. I guess you read Klang & Ton in Bulagaria too?
Fun driver for under $10
The German Klang & Ton magazine has quite some designs with it. For inspiration:Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
Strassacker, Komponenten: Lautsprecher, Frequenzweichen, Bauelemente
My idea for this driver would be a small D'appolito floorstander with two 5 inch drivers. X-over 7-900 Hz, first order. And a small conical "waveguide" setting the driver back just enough to make a time delay. Just a small conical 45 degree 16 mm deep "horn" would add the extra dB's needed for the low x-over point. I guess you read Klang & Ton in Bulagaria too?
Fun driver for under $10
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They are ready and WoW!
Interestingly, they do have sufficient low frequency information.
I can't tell whether the enclosure is bass reflex or qarter wave resonator of some sort because it's lenght corresponds to 1/4 wave of about 80-100 Hz and it is tuned to 90 Hz.
How could I tell between the two?
Further, some considerable amount of treble is audible through the port, quieter enough not to create a second source, but it is there. This is because I didn't arranged the port higher and the internal part pointing downwards.
There is another option, an additional wooden front panel with two holes, one for the driver to the enclosure and second for an external port.
N.B. The port could be mounted only if you cut the enclosure pipe between the end and the opening.
By the way, how do you detetmine the correct lenght of a port with a turm? It should be 80x200 mm, but it has a 90 degree turn. I measured lenght in the center.
Q: Does this enclosure qualify for BVR?
So someone could try downward facing internal port and someone the more sophisticated version with front panel.
Anyway, the sound is very pleasant and non fatiguing.
It seems that there are some things in acoustics that we don't understand or know.
Or maybe it is not acoustics, but recordings?
I have always thought there is no life with lower cut off higher than 30 Hz. These speakers have 60 Hz under question and still they play music well enough?!
Very strange!
Interestingly, they do have sufficient low frequency information.
I can't tell whether the enclosure is bass reflex or qarter wave resonator of some sort because it's lenght corresponds to 1/4 wave of about 80-100 Hz and it is tuned to 90 Hz.
How could I tell between the two?
Further, some considerable amount of treble is audible through the port, quieter enough not to create a second source, but it is there. This is because I didn't arranged the port higher and the internal part pointing downwards.
There is another option, an additional wooden front panel with two holes, one for the driver to the enclosure and second for an external port.
N.B. The port could be mounted only if you cut the enclosure pipe between the end and the opening.
By the way, how do you detetmine the correct lenght of a port with a turm? It should be 80x200 mm, but it has a 90 degree turn. I measured lenght in the center.
Q: Does this enclosure qualify for BVR?
So someone could try downward facing internal port and someone the more sophisticated version with front panel.
Anyway, the sound is very pleasant and non fatiguing.
It seems that there are some things in acoustics that we don't understand or know.
Or maybe it is not acoustics, but recordings?
I have always thought there is no life with lower cut off higher than 30 Hz. These speakers have 60 Hz under question and still they play music well enough?!
Very strange!
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Thank you!
I don't think it is worth the effort to design a sophisticated enclosure for a 10$ driver.
I don't hear need for a BSC, but even if there was such need, you can't afford to loose efgiciency with such small driver.
I just increase the volume untill the sound becomes a little dull, then I turn it back a little. The spl is completely sufficient in order to illuminate a very large room with enough details.
They are great for kitchen, bedroom or surround.
Best regards!
I don't think it is worth the effort to design a sophisticated enclosure for a 10$ driver.
I don't hear need for a BSC, but even if there was such need, you can't afford to loose efgiciency with such small driver.
I just increase the volume untill the sound becomes a little dull, then I turn it back a little. The spl is completely sufficient in order to illuminate a very large room with enough details.
They are great for kitchen, bedroom or surround.
Best regards!
Thanks for the comments!
Now I think of a further improvement!
What about a vibrator: BS 130 - 4 Ohm it could be crossed over with a single inductance and it goes below 30 Hz. The downside is that the price is ~50$ per piece.
The plan is to suspend the base on springs over another piece of wood allowing say 5 mm of linear movement. Then the whole speaker will become a bass radiator.
And by the way, they really sound great, you even get a little addicted to the sound. This is even though the cables are 2x 0.75mm2 10m long (33 feet) and maybe really robbing the HF response and rising Qts unnecessarily.
Now I think of a further improvement!
What about a vibrator: BS 130 - 4 Ohm it could be crossed over with a single inductance and it goes below 30 Hz. The downside is that the price is ~50$ per piece.
The plan is to suspend the base on springs over another piece of wood allowing say 5 mm of linear movement. Then the whole speaker will become a bass radiator.
And by the way, they really sound great, you even get a little addicted to the sound. This is even though the cables are 2x 0.75mm2 10m long (33 feet) and maybe really robbing the HF response and rising Qts unnecessarily.
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Maybe this is of interest, German FAST with the FRS 5X: FAST mit Visaton W130S4 und FRS5X - DIY-HIFI-Forum Visaton W130S not the BS130 I think these vibration units are ment to be felt, not to be heard. Your butt has no problem with extreme distortion, your ears have.
Have you seen these distortion measurements of the Visaton FRS5X?
I guestimate the waveguide puts +- 5 dB extra on top of the already healthy 89dB. Perfect mixture for a fast / cone tweeter. The right waveguide will add some dB's around 1.500 Hz.
I think these vibration units are ment to be felt, not to be heard. Your butt has no problem with extreme distortion, your ears have. Have you seen these distortion measurements of the Visaton FRS5X?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I guestimate the waveguide puts +- 5 dB extra on top of the already healthy 89dB. Perfect mixture for a fast / cone tweeter. The right waveguide will add some dB's around 1.500 Hz.
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This definitely is very interesting, thank you!
It seems that they have some pretty high distortion below 300 Hz. But a LR-2 crossover at 500 Hz would be great.
The flat impedace really allows series crossover, I saw they use second order in the link. I have read that series crossover has it's advantages only if it is first order. Maybe first order at 2.5 kHz as in the Pioneer HPM?
Definitely a great driver and a pleasure to listen to it!
It seems it qualifies as extremely low distortion?
Now you see I have golden ears, I only recommend really good drivers that measure well.
It seems that they have some pretty high distortion below 300 Hz. But a LR-2 crossover at 500 Hz would be great.
The flat impedace really allows series crossover, I saw they use second order in the link. I have read that series crossover has it's advantages only if it is first order. Maybe first order at 2.5 kHz as in the Pioneer HPM?
Definitely a great driver and a pleasure to listen to it!
It seems it qualifies as extremely low distortion?
Now you see I have golden ears, I only recommend really good drivers that measure well.
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Maybe this is of interest, German FAST with the FRS 5X: FAST mit Visaton W130S4 und FRS5X - DIY-HIFI-Forum Visaton W130S not the BS130
Have you seen these distortion measurements of the Visaton FRS5X?
I guestimate the waveguide puts +- 5 dB extra on top of the already healthy 89dB. Perfect mixture for a fast / cone tweeter. The right waveguide will add some dB's around 1.500 Hz.
This definitely is very interesting, thank you!
It seems that they have some pretty high distortion below 300 Hz. But a LR-2 crossover at 500 Hz would be great.
The flat impedace really allows series crossover, I saw they use second order in the link. I have read that series crossover has it's advantages only if it is first order. Maybe first order at 2.5 kHz as in the Pioneer HPM?
Definitely a great driver and a pleasure to listen to it!
It seems it qualifies as extremely low distortion?
Now you see I have golden ears, I only recommend really good drivers that measure well.
Really interesting info!!!
The FRS5X are lovely sounding and I've had a few sat here waiting a FAST or unconventional 2 way build (once i finish my degree). Pair mission woofers planned with them. I was planning to cross at 500-600 hz in order to cut excursion down probably 4th order. Though limited in ultimate SPL, they sound lovely and clean, and very good value for money.
I also have tang band w2 800 which were A LOT more expensive, but are even better, similarly limited (except in SPL), and in comparison have far less value for money.
Thanks for the FRS5X data, i hadn't seen any ( or any for the w2 800 for that matter).
The TB W2-800 is nice too! But iirc has some problems around 2k. I have a sweet spot for these small 2 inch drivers. Heard a lot of good speakers with such drivers as f.a.s.t, cone tweeter or mid.
The FRS 5 X enables a lot of ideas, small d'appolito with mini amt, fast, line array, high eff with a little waveguide. I am not affiliated with Visaton but it's almost a homeshopping widget, works great in office, garden, bedroom and makes a great present too.
The FRS 5 X enables a lot of ideas, small d'appolito with mini amt, fast, line array, high eff with a little waveguide. I am not affiliated with Visaton
but it's almost a homeshopping widget, works great in office, garden, bedroom and makes a great present too.
T101, thank you for an impressive project! Can you post a link to the Vistaton 5X you used? All I could find (at Parts Express) is
Visaton FRS5-8 2" Full-Range Speaker 8 Ohm
I'm still working on my "Polluto" -- similar goals but (I bet) even cheaper than yours
Visaton FRS5-8 2" Full-Range Speaker 8 Ohm
I'm still working on my "Polluto" -- similar goals but (I bet) even cheaper than yours
This is the driver used FRS 5 X - 8 Ohm but it looks that partsexpress doesn't have it on stock.
This one is also very nice driver, but a little bigger Visaton FRS8-8 3.3" Full-Range Speaker 8 Ohm
This one is also very nice driver, but a little bigger Visaton FRS8-8 3.3" Full-Range Speaker 8 Ohm
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