I had one experience using the Bose system when I was doing sound in a nightclub. A bluegrass band brought it in and wanted to use it instead of the house PA. It was really pretty bad compared to the 'normal' PA. Very feedback prone and much stronger room interaction than the house mains. It might work better for modest volumes, but it sounds like this isn't going to be used for a couple people strumming guitars and singing Kumbaya.
a few years back you might be buying a constant directivity by JBL, EV or one of the medium format suppliers. and that's probably all you need is medium format unless the church is huge.
the CD systems have been replaced by line arrays - stacked in various arrangements.
FWIW BOSE is a high dollar under-performer.
FWIW many people including paul, believe Klipsch to be fantastic.
can they really hear anything?
Yeah, I think practically speaking some CD PA speakers is all that is needed here.
I think (oddly enough) that line arrays are the least worst option for reverberant spaces. Probably overkill for this. Any decent LA is going to be $$$.
If there are reflective walls are nearby, a large CD horn is probably going to have less room interaction than most line arrays. (depending on specifics)
Last edited:
My own opinion is that the free JBLs work just fine and the massive size even impresses the younger set. Wish I could remember the model numbers. The Bose replacements would run over $12K just for the speakers. I would build the 1954 K15s but if they didn't like them after the demo I don't know what I would do with them.
interesting horn - I have equivalent LF cabinets plus 60 degree Altec to approximate - behind my little K is one of the JBL cabs http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/5974/k10goldenflutetweeter.jpg
http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/cinema/4638.pdf
a properly tailored line source could be ok and handle a lot of thermal power
http://www.jblpro.com/pages/pub/cinema/4638.pdf
a properly tailored line source could be ok and handle a lot of thermal power
Last edited:
Your own opinion sounds about right. Nothing wrong with big old JBLs.
If they are set on spending money on new toys, I kind of like the JBL CBT 70 suggestion, though I have not heard them.
Karlsons (the original ones) are pretty tough to beat for a compact outdoor PA. Personally I would probably pick something more directional for a reverberant space.
A bit more than 400 church sound systems ranging from 80 seats to 15,000 seats. A few concert systems for local bands to stacks & racks for "A" list acts. Built a few radio stations. But mostly the main work is stadium size systems.
Then there are the guys who work with me. They have worked for amazing numbers of major bands.
Then there is the back room stuff. You would be surprised at how those major brand systems get designed. Yes some of the features I want are specifically designed in. Two of the items are weight and coverage angle that were the direct results of my work.
Now the basic church questions are:
Dimensions of the room
Style of worship
Size and type of prayer/praise team
Minimum, typical and maximum attendance
Operator skill level
Knowing the basics certainly helps.
But my read of this thread is the OP would like to play with a particular loudspeaker with someone else footing the bill and is looking for support.
Don Keele had a lot to do with the JBL CBT70 and they work quite well. EV has a decent moderately priced line array and Community makes some very durable stackable systems.
But the actual basic usage questions need to be answered before more specific recommendations can be made.
Totally bad read, here's the OP;
The JBLs work fine and a sound company with all the measurements (and a Bose rep on the premises that day) recommended the Bose at a cost of over $12K, but did not offer to demo. I was a bit skeptical and wondered if anyone had experience with Karlsons in a church environment. I would have built and donated the Karlsons if they could do the job (if not i have no place to park them). The JBLs at one time were at my disposal (when I looked at the inventory sheet for a model number the girls had just written two large black speakers colosseum qualty). With no sound engineering they were placed in the church and trumped the original suspended two box system.
Some responses were considerate and helpful, the rest just people taking a shot at the Karlson. People with no Karlson experience in a somewhat similar environment could have done all involved a favor by remaining mute.
Last edited:
sound 'experts' often do this to simply sell something already in stock that needs to be moved, whether it is a good solution or not. doctors will often perform unneeded operations in order to pay for a vacation home.
don keele also designed the CV systems for EV and then JBL. the sound arrays that he designed were for the USN and followed logically from the JBL CV.
if a JBL CV system is ample for this church, this is likely a 400-1k sized church and a different 'expert' needs to be consulted or the matter dropped. BTW, the system link above is for bass cabinets with dual 15" drivers, not 18's.
out of curiosity, is the 'expert' consulted a church member?
i apologize for the comment about burning these. i thought you were talking about a klipsch system. i am unfamiliar with the karlson 15 system. moderator please feel free to delete the comment about burning the k15 as well as this post.
Last edited:
Were it my church I would build the Karlsons. Since no one has any Karlson experience in a church venue it could prove to be a rewarding journey and gained experience but alas I have neither the time nor the access. I am less than impressed with most of the pro systems I heve seen in churches. It makes me wonder if the pros are real licensed engineers or just good ole boys with some OJT and hands on experience out to make a buck.
What makes you think folks have no Karlson experience? I played with them in the late 70's. Just not a good choice. I did run into a single church that had them, didn't work well so they decided to add more. Still didn't work, but after wasting money they just quit.
A real Bose "rep" do you have a name?
I had an interesting conversation with one of their engineers, he asked me to look at a new product intended for churches. He pretty much laid out they were too small for even arena work, but mid size and smaller churches were fine. Guess where the sales guys targeted? Arenas... I know many of the major folks at Bose as with most of the major players.
Of course if you actually wanted advice you would have answered the normal survey questions.
So go build a pair of Karlsons, with a bit of looking you can do it for a few hundred bucks.
Got that. Actually he designed the first modern CD horns after realizing there was a bit off in Harry Olsen's book. As the story goes later when he met H.O. and discussed the issue, H.O. mentioned they did all that work with slide rules and he wasn't surprised it was surpassed by computer work.
But D.K. really didn't have much hand in the JBL products other than a few horn models and the smaller CBT style line arrays. The bigger stuff was Doug Button and a few others. D.K. sort of got sidelined into Harman Automotive.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.