There's only one. This one. The other one in the Markaudio forum was deleted. I guess it was "off topic"...
Yes sure, I've spent money on those drivers just to crack them
Please don't post next time you eat that stew again
Last post as I'll be as guilty as anyone for carrying on this thread
Do I think there's an inherent design problem with MA drivers? No, as I don't recall reading about a cracked MA frame before. Mark said 3 in a 1000 I think, have an issue. Not had issues with three pairs purchased, I've used two of the three and screwed them in (and removed and repeated) carefully but fairly tight.
Was the OP negligent - unlike others I gave him benefit of the doubt, it was probably just an unfortunate occurrence which doesn't normally happen.
Could it have been dealt with better Yes definitely, but I went into that already
Has the thread gone on long enough Yes! It damages reputation needlessly, without finger pointing the boots gone in too much
Just sayin'
Do I think there's an inherent design problem with MA drivers? No, as I don't recall reading about a cracked MA frame before. Mark said 3 in a 1000 I think, have an issue. Not had issues with three pairs purchased, I've used two of the three and screwed them in (and removed and repeated) carefully but fairly tight.
Was the OP negligent - unlike others I gave him benefit of the doubt, it was probably just an unfortunate occurrence which doesn't normally happen.
Could it have been dealt with better Yes definitely, but I went into that already
Has the thread gone on long enough Yes! It damages reputation needlessly, without finger pointing the boots gone in too much
Just sayin'
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I neither said nor implied that. I was talking about resonant operation of the cone in wideband drive units only. Nothing more.
As above. I didn't make such a claim. But you are citing engineering applicable to limited BW drive units operating (mostly) under pistonic conditions, under which I agree with you. But like it or not, resonance of the cone is how wideband drivers produce the majority of their BW. A pistonic wideband drive unit is not possible in this physical reality.
And usually is.
Sorry Cal -just wanted to clarify since my last was misinterpreted. Back OT, it would appear the OP's issue is resolved, which is good.
Given that, Bill makes a good point.
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Why if there's an easy way to repair it? I might need a repair kit anyway when even people much more experienced than me crack a Markaudio driver from time to time
The driver seems to work just fine although I'm observing a slight difference in impedance between the two drivers. See attachment. Anything to worry about?
Attachments
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I said this myself in the post above? So I don't know why you're repeating it.
You said.
Regardless of if the cone is full range or not, this is simply not true. Details do not get lost if the cone is well damped, or if it doesn't resonate.
If you're trying to say that a full range driver, with a non resonant cone, loses details because it's response isn't extended, then this would be true. It's frequency response would droop, linear distortion would be high and details would be lost, but then it wouldn't be a full range driver any more.
I don't think this is what you are trying to say though. Like when you say this.
Because you're talking full range or multiway systems. It implies that you're saying that a multiway system, that uses a driver that has a resonant cone, is going to be more detailed than the system that does not.
It is perfectly possible to make a high efficiency, multiway system, that does not need to exploit the range extending benefits of a resonant cone to work properly, yet from what you are saying, it would appear that you would be of the opinion that you'd be wrong to try and do so. Why? Because making a system that includes a driver, or drivers, that feature resonant cones, will give you more detail than the system that does not. This is simply not true.
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OK you guys, you've had your say. Please take this offline and I will clean up the thread later.
Thank you.
Soon as you like Cal. Not able re the latter since I do not have PMs activated here. Since Spkr wishes them moved elsewhere however, I trust a minor continuation is appropriate. If not, feel free to bin me.
Within the nominal piston band. But I've never been discussing pistonic operation but resonant behaviour of the cone / substrate and minimising losses.
Your inference, not mine. I was talking about wideband drive units in their resonant BW only. You decided to extrapolate from that something which was neither said nor implied. I was not (repeat not) talking about multiway systems where you may (may) be able to maintain nominally pistonic operation across the audio BW with carefully selected drivers. Whether you'd automatically want to is another matter, since as we all know, that is not a panacea.
Indeed it is.
See above. I didn't say that. You inferred it.
I am sorry but.
Is not an inference you said it outright. Cone break up and resonances are what let full range drivers have an extended frequency response, but then you say directly after this, that cones that do not resonate easily cause the lower level signals get lost.
If this was meant to say,
i.e. it's not very resonant sensitive, so the high frequency response droops and high frequency details are lost. Then yes, that's fine. But what you said was highly misleading.
It doesn't stop their though as you continued with this.
Again, basically saying that these resonances are what low efficiency systems lack and are the reason why they aren't as revealing. (If this is at all true in the first place).
And then this is said.
Again saying that the resonances are what are causing you to perceive the system as more detailed. And again meaning that a system that does not have resonant cones is going to somehow miss these details.
If your post wasn't supposed to be read as such, then you could do with rewriting it because I am not the only one who took it that way. But really, what other way were you supposed to take it? Because if that wasn't what you were meaning, what were you meaning?
Is not an inference you said it outright. Cone break up and resonances are what let full range drivers have an extended frequency response, but then you say directly after this, that cones that do not resonate easily cause the lower level signals get lost.
If this was meant to say,
i.e. it's not very resonant sensitive, so the high frequency response droops and high frequency details are lost. Then yes, that's fine. But what you said was highly misleading.
It doesn't stop their though as you continued with this.
Again, basically saying that these resonances are what low efficiency systems lack and are the reason why they aren't as revealing. (If this is at all true in the first place).
And then this is said.
Again saying that the resonances are what are causing you to perceive the system as more detailed. And again meaning that a system that does not have resonant cones is going to somehow miss these details.
If your post wasn't supposed to be read as such, then you could do with rewriting it because I am not the only one who took it that way. But really, what other way were you supposed to take it? Because if that wasn't what you were meaning, what were you meaning?
The head diameter on the supplied socket head wood screws is 0.272". The counter bore diameter on my markaudio drivers is 0.277". That leaves only .005" clearance on the diameter. If the location of your pilot hole was out by more than 0.0025" the head of the screw would interfere with the plastic frame and cause stress on the frame. There are standard counterbore diameters published in the Machinists Handbook and other resources. For the #8 socket head wood screw the standard counterbore would be 0.3125". Although it doesn't need to be this size there does need to more clearance than what is provided. I had to buy smaller wood screws (No. 6) to fit the holes with the proper amount of clearance. This is an issue that needs to be addressed IMHO.
Hi Cal (moderators), Guys,
Sadly, predictably. This thread has become a Mark Fenlon "punch bag"; The only maker of driver that believes in Diyaudio. Sad to watch us being ripped apart. We're a tiny company. I'm doing my best at a time when my brain is willing, the rest of me is not firing on all cylinders. We're producing several thousand Alpair frames each year, the fail rate is minuscule, this situation has blown-up far beyond reasonable proportion.
Such is life. At least some recognise the harm being done (thanks, Chris, Bill Poster et. al).
In the mean time. Contrary to the be belief of Spekr and Hyatt who see me as a delete artist (no wonder).......I've been working on frame development for some time, which all members had the opportunity to feedback:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/252069-chs70-frame-development-feedback-please.html
The CHS70/GF30 frame development originated from Japan Diyer requests to improve/do:
1 - easier frame to box mounting
2 - reduce recess depths
3 - reduce frame O/D
4 - allow for surface mounting
Re the discourse on driver function; from what I've read its operating at a reality rate of 20%, the rest is insupportable in-accurate and over-simplified conjecture which is alarming. One wonders how many on-lookers are turned off the hobby by so much negativity. If I'm able to help, I'd like to try by writing notes (a paper) on the subject in a form that most can comprehend. As some of you know, Markaudio has a laboratory isolation facility where we specifically measure and test cone and power-trains in great detail.
I'd like to thank all the guys that have (do) give their support to small Diy companies like ours. And a big thanks to the guys that know I'm trying to be my best at a time when parts of me aint on top form.
I've apologised several times in recent seasons re situations that I couldn't resolve. Due to my illness I can't always get every communication done in ways that satisfy all, or provide endless solutions to every problem that comes along. But at least I try. At least the clinic I'm attending finally allowed me to take my laptop in and use their wi-fi!
Thanks
Mark
Sadly, predictably. This thread has become a Mark Fenlon "punch bag"; The only maker of driver that believes in Diyaudio. Sad to watch us being ripped apart. We're a tiny company. I'm doing my best at a time when my brain is willing, the rest of me is not firing on all cylinders. We're producing several thousand Alpair frames each year, the fail rate is minuscule, this situation has blown-up far beyond reasonable proportion.
Such is life. At least some recognise the harm being done (thanks, Chris, Bill Poster et. al).
In the mean time. Contrary to the be belief of Spekr and Hyatt who see me as a delete artist (no wonder).......I've been working on frame development for some time, which all members had the opportunity to feedback:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/252069-chs70-frame-development-feedback-please.html
The CHS70/GF30 frame development originated from Japan Diyer requests to improve/do:
1 - easier frame to box mounting
2 - reduce recess depths
3 - reduce frame O/D
4 - allow for surface mounting
Re the discourse on driver function; from what I've read its operating at a reality rate of 20%, the rest is insupportable in-accurate and over-simplified conjecture which is alarming. One wonders how many on-lookers are turned off the hobby by so much negativity. If I'm able to help, I'd like to try by writing notes (a paper) on the subject in a form that most can comprehend. As some of you know, Markaudio has a laboratory isolation facility where we specifically measure and test cone and power-trains in great detail.
I'd like to thank all the guys that have (do) give their support to small Diy companies like ours. And a big thanks to the guys that know I'm trying to be my best at a time when parts of me aint on top form.
I've apologised several times in recent seasons re situations that I couldn't resolve. Due to my illness I can't always get every communication done in ways that satisfy all, or provide endless solutions to every problem that comes along. But at least I try. At least the clinic I'm attending finally allowed me to take my laptop in and use their wi-fi!
Thanks
Mark
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As much as I appreciate everyone's desire for input, we have strayed far enough from just helping someone fix a cracked frame that there really isn't a point in keeping this thread open. If you want to start another thread for the other topics, fine, you can copy and paste from here.
Closed.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.