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Old 18th August 2014, 10:46 AM   #1
spekr is offline spekr  United States
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Default Full range on wall for home theater?

Hi!

Are there any drivers that can be used for home theater applications?
The driver would be mounted in a on wall box and it has to go down to 80Hz.

Can I expect any current full range driver to reach reference level at lets say 2m listening distance in such a configuration?

Thanks!
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Old 18th August 2014, 11:25 AM   #2
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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When you say reference levels, are you referring to something like THX certified reference levels? That is a difficult standard to meet for most home audio gear.

THX reference levels specify that a -20dB of full scale pink noise input to the amp should produce 85dB (C) at the listening position (in this case 2m). That means that at 1m distance, the driver needs to produce 85dB + 6dB or 91dB. Also the peak levels need to be capable of hitting 105dB at 2m or 111dB at 1m. These are a tall order for any driver, let alone full range drivers. You will need pro audio drivers to do this, and the only ones that will do this with ability to get to 80Hz are probably coaxial drivers in the 6in to 8in class. Take for example a B&C 6FHX51, which has 93dB sensitivity and 300w peak power handling and 85Hz frequency range (will need a vented cabinet).
B&C Speakers

or the 8 inch variant with 94dB sensitivity and 75Hz extension:
B&C Speakers

If you relaxed the requirement to bass extension of 170Hz, then a PRV 5MR450-NDY can probably do it as a fullrange (non-coaxial) driver in a sealed cabinet.
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Old 18th August 2014, 11:54 AM   #3
spekr is offline spekr  United States
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Thanks a lot xrk971!

If we would reduce max level requirements by 10dB we would end up at 81dB mean and 101dB peak at 1m, correct?

Does that give me more driver options if I want to get down to 80Hz?

Last edited by spekr; 18th August 2014 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 18th August 2014, 12:24 PM   #4
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Yes, you are in a different ball game now and the possibility of a full range driver is definitely there. You actually have lots of options at these levels - no problem as many drivers are 85dB or more efficient. Many decent 4in full range mounted in a wall mount bass reflex or a flat folded MLTL can reach 80Hz and get to 101dB. I will see what I can come up with but I have looked at this before.
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Old 18th August 2014, 12:31 PM   #5
spekr is offline spekr  United States
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Thank you so much for your help. Much appreciated.
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Old 18th August 2014, 03:52 PM   #6
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Default Design for Flat Wall Mount MLTL for A7.3

Here is a design that can reach 102dB with flat extension to 80Hz. It is a 15x15in "pizza box" shaped speaker with 2.75in depth. Use 1.5in dia SCH40 PVC pipe for the vent. Since it is wall mount, there is no baffle step correction needed. Use with a second order -12dB/oct high pass filter at 120Hz to prevent cone over excursion.

Click the image to open in full size.
Use polyfill stuffing from closed end to just past driver.

Freq response at xmax (with 120 Hz -12dB HPF):

Click the image to open in full size.

Cone excursion at 13.7 volts for xmax:

Click the image to open in full size.

Impedance:

Click the image to open in full size.

Electrical Power at xmax:

Click the image to open in full size.

Impulse Response:

Click the image to open in full size.

And by the way, if you make the vent 4 in long and remove the HPF, you can use this as a fullrange speaker but at lower SPL's and get some pretty good bass extension to 45Hz:

Click the image to open in full size.
Attached Images
File Type: png MLTLWAL7-Plan-v1.png (22.7 KB, 695 views)
File Type: png MLTLWAL7-A7.3-Freq-1m.png (30.1 KB, 681 views)
File Type: png MLTLWAL7-A7.3-Displ-xmax.png (27.2 KB, 390 views)
File Type: png MLTLWAL7-A7.3-Electrical-Power.png (26.1 KB, 389 views)
File Type: png MLTLWAL7-A7.3-Impedance.png (26.0 KB, 389 views)
File Type: png MLTLWAL7-A7.3-Impulse.png (15.4 KB, 388 views)
File Type: png MLTLWAL7-A7.3-Freq-1m-Fullrange.png (33.3 KB, 677 views)

Last edited by xrk971; 18th August 2014 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 18th August 2014, 08:31 PM   #7
spekr is offline spekr  United States
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Thanks xrk971!

A7.3 is a Markaudio Alpair? Is this the only driver that has the necessary Xmax to get there? Would a bass reflex design also work?
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Old 18th August 2014, 08:39 PM   #8
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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You wanted a wall mount so I made it thin. This lends itself to a MLTL. A bass reflex will not sound as nice and not load the cone as well. Yes, Mark Audio Alpair 7.3. I picked it because it has one of the larger xmax (4mm) for a 4in driver. You need that xmax to get 101dB at 80Hz if your driver is 85dB sensitive. A CHR70 cost less and works very similar but will not get to 101dB before running out of xmax. You can attach this out to a long 45in tall flat stick and it will behave almost the same.
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Old 18th August 2014, 09:09 PM   #9
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Check out the recent work/threads from Overkill Audio is doing, just search BMR here and you should find a few things.
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Old 19th August 2014, 08:57 AM   #10
spekr is offline spekr  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
You wanted a wall mount so I made it thin. This lends itself to a MLTL. A bass reflex will not sound as nice and not load the cone as well. Yes, Mark Audio Alpair 7.3. I picked it because it has one of the larger xmax (4mm) for a 4in driver. You need that xmax to get 101dB at 80Hz if your driver is 85dB sensitive. A CHR70 cost less and works very similar but will not get to 101dB before running out of xmax. You can attach this out to a long 45in tall flat stick and it will behave almost the same.
Are there any other drivers that would work as well?

I've seen that the Alpair 7.3 has a very strange off axis behavior (very narrow between 6-7kHz and blooming around 10kHz).

Maybe something even bigger like 8". Dispersion might not be good for multiple seats but would work for a single seat while reducing off axis energy sent into the room?
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