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Old 8th May 2014, 04:47 AM   #1
kr1s is offline kr1s  United Kingdom
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Default Where to start?!

Hi All

I've been lurking here for a little while but this is my first post so please go easy on me!

I'm feeling the urge to build myself a nice set of speakers but am not sure which design or driver to go for.

My room is 6m x 4m x 2.6m

My musical taste covers classic rock, indie rock, folk rock and only occasional acoustic or classical.

I tend to like big speakers with a warm sound (not least because a lot of what I listen to isn't so well recorded and can sound harsh). Currently I have Naim Intro which I like a lot.

They will be driven by a Yaqin MC-300C amp which is only 8W/ch so I'll need quite high sensitivity.

My budget is around 500.

I can do woodwork but am not an expert and don't have access to CNC machinery so I will either need to hand cut or use pre-cut panels.

From what I've read, I've considered the Frugal Horn 3 but wonder whether it will give enough bass for my liking, so maybe one of the Pensil series with the larger drivers would suit better?

Any guidance gratefully accepted!

Thanks

Chris
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Old 8th May 2014, 04:50 AM   #2
frugal-phile(tm)
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For your needs you might better consider Frugel-Horn XL with A10p.

dave
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Old 10th May 2014, 08:12 AM   #3
kr1s is offline kr1s  United Kingdom
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Thanks for the reply.

I had somehow missed that there is an XL version of FH.

I should certainly be able to accommodate it in my room but I'm not sure about cutting the curves by hand so I'm going to investigate getting the panels CNCd. I have no problem with making a donation for the plans if this route looks feasible.

Will I get more bass from the FHXL than a Pensil (even a SuperPensil 12)?

Thanks again!

Chris
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Old 10th May 2014, 03:40 PM   #4
zman01 is online now zman01  Bangladesh
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Chris,

Probably the FHXL will go a bit lower than the Pensil or even the Super Pensil 12 - the FHXL design team can comment on that. I had the SP12 in the room and the sound was definitely good, but the cabs are around 19" deep from top to bottom, and WAF among other things was an issue. Recently completed a build of the FHXL and have been generally impressed with the sound across multiple genres including electronica. However please note that a lot of rock recordings sound a bit thin and may not be as enjoyable on revealing single driver FR speakers vs ones with large woofers... Having said that FHXL with the Alpair 10P is likely to be a good bet for a single driver system. Though the base of the FHXL is deep at 20+ inches, the overall design aesthetics still make it a visually pleasing.

Last edited by zman01; 10th May 2014 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 10th May 2014, 06:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kr1s View Post
I have no problem with making a donation for the plans if this route looks feasible.
$10 to diyAudio ... a number have already happened.

Quote:
Will I get more bass from the FHXL than a Pensil (even a SuperPensil 12)?
In our experience, yes.

In terms of potential bass extension, the A12p is behind A10.3, A10p. The Mark Audio drivers with the potential to go the lowest were/are A10.2 and EL70.

The larger A12 cone means it can move more air, but i'll take A10p over A12p for everything it does better.

dave
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Old 10th May 2014, 08:10 PM   #6
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
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Hi,

Be careful, you will have your work cut out to better the Naims.

rgds, sreten.
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Old 11th May 2014, 08:01 AM   #7
kr1s is offline kr1s  United Kingdom
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Thank you all for taking the time to reply and to consider my requirements!

Luckily WAF is not a big issue for me as my other half is very laid back about these kind of things

Quote:
please note that a lot of rock recordings sound a bit thin
This was something that I was already wondering about and it's made me dubious as to whether FR is the way ahead for me. I do like quite a full, warm sound precisely because it's kinder to poor recordings.
So, I'm going to do some reading on the multi-way pages and think about whether that might be a better option for me. Or a sub-woofer.
Too many options!!

Quote:
you will have your work cut out to better the Naims
Do you mean I'll struggle to better them with a FR design, or with a DIY build full stop?
It is another thing I was somewhat concerned about... Part of me was thinking that as they are over 15 years old now things ought to have moved on somewhat, but they are good! (Mine also have upgraded cross-overs)
Having said that, if I make something and it isn't as good, it's not a disaster - I can use one or other pair in another room and I will still enjoy doing it and hopefully learn something, which at least half of the point of DIY, right?!

Thanks again!

Chris
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Old 11th May 2014, 09:07 AM   #8
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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Just out of curiosity, could you name some CDs (?) that suffer from harsh sound?

//
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Old 11th May 2014, 09:23 AM   #9
kr1s is offline kr1s  United Kingdom
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Quote:
could you name some CDs (?) that suffer from harsh sound?
Yes (just for information I use a Naim CD3.5 and original rather than copied disks, and Naim Nait3).
Here are a few discs that spring to mind:

The Jesus and Mary Chain, Darklands - April Skies particularly
The Bluetones, Expecting To Fly - Cut Some Rug paricularly
The National - High Violet and Trouble Will Find Me
The Black Keys - El Camino
Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Californication
The White Stripes - Icky Thump
Suede - Coming Up

The first two are my tracks for testing equipment to see whether I'm going to be able to live with it.

Regards

Chris
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Old 11th May 2014, 11:38 AM   #10
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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From the broad range of music that you like and your request for sufficient bass you might want to consider a design that uses full range drivers called FAST or Fullrange Assisted Subwoofer Technology. It is a 2-way crossed low around 120 Hz to 250 Hz and lets a full range driver be relieved if the lowest octave where cone excursion will cause distortion and also lack the power and punch of a large woofer there. Also you can use a smaller 3 to 4 inch full range on top and this has better highs and better polar directivity than a 6.5 or 8 inch full range. The easiest way to do a FAST is to bi-amp and use an active XO like a miniDSP. Back loaded horns are nice but it is tough to beat the overall ease and facility of sound that a well implemented FAST system can do. Just wanted to give you more options to think about. There are plenty of folks who can recommend the full range tops and woofer for you to try.
Good luck.
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