I just purchased 2 Alpair 10.2 drivers and I am not sure which enclosure to build. So far I thought I will build the Pensil enclosure but found quite a few others on the net:
MarkO
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/197792-10-2-enclosure.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/137585-mark-audio-alpair-10-mltl-design-4.html#post1762978
http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/plan-alp-10-advanced.pdf
Neurochrome.com : : Audio : Designing an MLTL
M10-A10
http://www.frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/Pensil10-2-map-211010.pdf
Which one would you build if resolution and LF extension are the priority?
MarkO
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/markaudio/197792-10-2-enclosure.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/137585-mark-audio-alpair-10-mltl-design-4.html#post1762978
http://www.creativesound.ca/pdf/plan-alp-10-advanced.pdf
Neurochrome.com : : Audio : Designing an MLTL
M10-A10
http://www.frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/Pensil10-2-map-211010.pdf
Which one would you build if resolution and LF extension are the priority?
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Some you missed here, and like Bob's M10-A10, paid planset here (mine).
But if maximum bass is the goal, the Woden Design Silbury is going to be hard to beat.
If that is too large to handle, either Bob's ML-TL (M10-A10) or Scott's (Pensil). Bob'd go lower, Scott's have more kick.
dave
But if maximum bass is the goal, the Woden Design Silbury is going to be hard to beat.
If that is too large to handle, either Bob's ML-TL (M10-A10) or Scott's (Pensil). Bob'd go lower, Scott's have more kick.
dave
To an extent, it depends on prioritisation & what you define by 'resolution' and the degree of LF extension desired & what you are prepared to sacrifice in order to achieve it, since all enclosure design is a compromise. Summarising those listed / referred to:
-The MarkO box looks decent enough, but is not tuned as low as some.
-The Erich Hartmann BR is essentially a QB3 alignment, which is not always very practical in-room. The high aspect ratio of the vent may damp this slightly, although whether intentional or otherwise I couldn't say. I'd be a little cautious.
-Jim's MLTL (if that's the one you're referring to) was a nice design, but as I recall, it was intended for the original Alpair 10.
-The plan on the CSS site linked to appears derived from a quick box MA put up. I think it was for the original Alpair 10; the alignment, if it's the one I'm thinking of wasn't the most practical, but I don't have time to back-engineer it at present to see what the 10.2 would look like in it.
-There is no finished design for the 10.2 o the Neurochrome site. The design methodology is derived purely from a set of ROT guidelines Bob put on his site & does not represent a refined / finished enclosure.
-Bob's M10-10 is an excellent, well-refined MLTL of its type with good LF extension & a nicely linear response. Available for a small charge.
-The Pensil 10.2 was an effective MLTL with slightly different priorities, & was tuned for a flatter impedance load & more mid - upper bass gain than outright extension. It was not a particular favourite of mine (I designed the pensil range) since it was slightly compromised by a desire to restrict the height of the cabinet -something I abandoned for the current 10.3 & 10P models.
-Silbury is very different: a tall back loaded horn. Lots of gain, very linear response if loaded optimally, very different power-response. If you like horns, you'll like it. If you don't, you might not (depends on whether your baseline assessment of horns was on a good or poor example). Like the M10-A10, available at a small charge.
-Dave's Mar-Ken series are excellent, very nicely balanced standmounts, offering very good control over the driver, but they do not go as low as some -depends on what you value most (likewise a small charge made). The GR version is available at the linked Frugal phile site for free, & should give a good flavour of what to expect from the more complex design.
-The MarkO box looks decent enough, but is not tuned as low as some.
-The Erich Hartmann BR is essentially a QB3 alignment, which is not always very practical in-room. The high aspect ratio of the vent may damp this slightly, although whether intentional or otherwise I couldn't say. I'd be a little cautious.
-Jim's MLTL (if that's the one you're referring to) was a nice design, but as I recall, it was intended for the original Alpair 10.
-The plan on the CSS site linked to appears derived from a quick box MA put up. I think it was for the original Alpair 10; the alignment, if it's the one I'm thinking of wasn't the most practical, but I don't have time to back-engineer it at present to see what the 10.2 would look like in it.
-There is no finished design for the 10.2 o the Neurochrome site. The design methodology is derived purely from a set of ROT guidelines Bob put on his site & does not represent a refined / finished enclosure.
-Bob's M10-10 is an excellent, well-refined MLTL of its type with good LF extension & a nicely linear response. Available for a small charge.
-The Pensil 10.2 was an effective MLTL with slightly different priorities, & was tuned for a flatter impedance load & more mid - upper bass gain than outright extension. It was not a particular favourite of mine (I designed the pensil range) since it was slightly compromised by a desire to restrict the height of the cabinet -something I abandoned for the current 10.3 & 10P models.
-Silbury is very different: a tall back loaded horn. Lots of gain, very linear response if loaded optimally, very different power-response. If you like horns, you'll like it. If you don't, you might not (depends on whether your baseline assessment of horns was on a good or poor example). Like the M10-A10, available at a small charge.
-Dave's Mar-Ken series are excellent, very nicely balanced standmounts, offering very good control over the driver, but they do not go as low as some -depends on what you value most (likewise a small charge made). The GR version is available at the linked Frugal phile site for free, & should give a good flavour of what to expect from the more complex design.
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Wow Scott, a lot of food for thought. I'll reread the plans and descriptions with your comments in mind.
I have absolutely no problem to pay a fee for a good plan.
Sizewise the Pensils would be ideal, but it is off course a bit difficult to estimate the compromises you describe without ever having heard the drivers.
I have absolutely no problem to pay a fee for a good plan.
Sizewise the Pensils would be ideal, but it is off course a bit difficult to estimate the compromises you describe without ever having heard the drivers.
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Hi,
It's my first post on diyaudio.
Please forgive me Morfeus, I don't want to hijack your thread but I'm too searching a suitable enclosure for Alpair drivers and figured I could add more designs to the list and gather some advices.
My needs are a bit different : I've not yet bought the drivers so I think I'll go with the Alpair 10.3M which is now widely available.
My constraints are :
- Simple project since it's my first speaker build (I have some woodworking skills & tools). I figured a fullranger will be ideal since the speakers can, for a small cost, be swapped & tested in a large variety of cabinets without having to redesign crossovers.
- Equip my small living room (14 feet X 14 feet) with a 2 way system for music, and next, if I like it, expand it to a 5 way for HT. I have a 5x100w luxman SS receiver sitting without speakers, perhaps a bit overpowered.
- Thanks to high WAF constraints, speakers must integrate seamlessly in the room so I need a small form factor like a wall mounted bookshelf or a small depth footprint floorstander. My wife have (very!) sensible ears and playback volume will be limited.
For now, I selected these designs, perhaps someone could give me an advice :
- Classic Golden Ratio Mar-Ken 10.3
Frugal-phile | Box Library / Mark Audio
=> Seems like a solid proved design
- Compact bass reflex
Mark Audio Alpair 10.3 Compact Bass Reflex Speaker Build | Mister Wireless
=> Perhaps hard to wall-mount
- The Mark2 design proposed here
Iris Strassacker, solutions HiFi plus de 500 kits d'enceintes à votre choix
=> I like these : compact floorstander with 15 cm depth
But I can't find any comment on this design, If I understand it's a simple bass reflex enclosure with the port placed on top.
Anyone ever build & listened to this one ?
I'm not sure this design is really tuned for the Alpair 10.3.
(I could still build every box without finish & go figure by swapping the drivers).
Thanks for your input.
Please forgive any miswriting cause I'm a French guy.
Miig.
It's my first post on diyaudio.
Please forgive me Morfeus, I don't want to hijack your thread but I'm too searching a suitable enclosure for Alpair drivers and figured I could add more designs to the list and gather some advices.
My needs are a bit different : I've not yet bought the drivers so I think I'll go with the Alpair 10.3M which is now widely available.
My constraints are :
- Simple project since it's my first speaker build (I have some woodworking skills & tools). I figured a fullranger will be ideal since the speakers can, for a small cost, be swapped & tested in a large variety of cabinets without having to redesign crossovers.
- Equip my small living room (14 feet X 14 feet) with a 2 way system for music, and next, if I like it, expand it to a 5 way for HT. I have a 5x100w luxman SS receiver sitting without speakers, perhaps a bit overpowered.
- Thanks to high WAF constraints, speakers must integrate seamlessly in the room so I need a small form factor like a wall mounted bookshelf or a small depth footprint floorstander. My wife have (very!) sensible ears and playback volume will be limited.
For now, I selected these designs, perhaps someone could give me an advice :
- Classic Golden Ratio Mar-Ken 10.3
Frugal-phile | Box Library / Mark Audio
=> Seems like a solid proved design
- Compact bass reflex
Mark Audio Alpair 10.3 Compact Bass Reflex Speaker Build | Mister Wireless
=> Perhaps hard to wall-mount
- The Mark2 design proposed here
Iris Strassacker, solutions HiFi plus de 500 kits d'enceintes à votre choix
=> I like these : compact floorstander with 15 cm depth
But I can't find any comment on this design, If I understand it's a simple bass reflex enclosure with the port placed on top.
Anyone ever build & listened to this one ?
I'm not sure this design is really tuned for the Alpair 10.3.
(I could still build every box without finish & go figure by swapping the drivers).
Thanks for your input.
Please forgive any miswriting cause I'm a French guy.
Miig.
miig:
Firstly, your English is much better than many of us here could do with any second language, even one as logical and lyrical as French
Secondly, while your room is small enough that any of the several "bookshelf" designs would deliver adequate performance, by the time you allow for buying or building appropriate stands, the footprint and cost can equal or exceed that of a floorstander. I'd tend towards the latter type, and while I've not heard them, if this is the kit you're referring to from Strassacker, the location of vent seems a bit strange.
I've heard the 10.2s in a more conventional MLTL (Bob Brines' M10A10), and they certainly work, and there are several other floorstanders known to be excellent performers for this driver, such as the Pensil
After a couple of experiences with them, I'm not a fan of"true" bookshelf or wall mounted systems - although the latter can work well enough for the dedication seating of home theater set ups.
and finally, yes building and testing every design that might possibly suit your application until you find the "best fit" is certainly one approach that can work, something that many of us already do, but not so high on the WAF chart
Firstly, your English is much better than many of us here could do with any second language, even one as logical and lyrical as French
Secondly, while your room is small enough that any of the several "bookshelf" designs would deliver adequate performance, by the time you allow for buying or building appropriate stands, the footprint and cost can equal or exceed that of a floorstander. I'd tend towards the latter type, and while I've not heard them, if this is the kit you're referring to from Strassacker, the location of vent seems a bit strange.
I've heard the 10.2s in a more conventional MLTL (Bob Brines' M10A10), and they certainly work, and there are several other floorstanders known to be excellent performers for this driver, such as the Pensil
After a couple of experiences with them, I'm not a fan of"true" bookshelf or wall mounted systems - although the latter can work well enough for the dedication seating of home theater set ups.
and finally, yes building and testing every design that might possibly suit your application until you find the "best fit" is certainly one approach that can work, something that many of us already do, but not so high on the WAF chart
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@ miig:
No problem, go ahead. I am also interested in smaller enclosures.
I have quite some experience in speaker building, my main system is an open baffle 3way that I developed myself.
The Alpair is for a small project with a small all-in-one Raspberry Pi, Amplifier and phono amplifier and an old tiny Braun record player that I am just rebuilding with the advice of my friend Frank Schröder. I do want to present this small system on the frickelfest.
I decided to try the Pensil and bought the wood today. I will build and measure it and listen off course. If I am not satisfied, I'll try another enclosure.
No problem, go ahead. I am also interested in smaller enclosures.
I have quite some experience in speaker building, my main system is an open baffle 3way that I developed myself.
The Alpair is for a small project with a small all-in-one Raspberry Pi, Amplifier and phono amplifier and an old tiny Braun record player that I am just rebuilding with the advice of my friend Frank Schröder. I do want to present this small system on the frickelfest.
I decided to try the Pensil and bought the wood today. I will build and measure it and listen off course. If I am not satisfied, I'll try another enclosure.
I should mention that Chris & i are working on compact floorstanders for the A10p, A10.3, A10.2 based on the Mar-Kel trapezoidal floorstander. Pictured below in solid yellow cedar (the big boxes behind are Em-Kens). The A10.3 will be just a touch wider (the version for A10p, and A10.2 more than a bit).These will use the same tuning as the appropriate CGR Mar-Ken10.x
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
dave
Many thanks for your answers.
I'm a big fan of massive speakers, without constraints I think I could build something like the silbury, or a big onken. But, the second these would enter my living room my wife could manage to find a direct exit in the chimney
In fact, some transparent speakers could suit to her taste.
The room contains quite some pieces of furnitures, so I must put the speakers near the wall, in the corners.
Was proposing this Mark2 kit plan from Strassacker because of the small floor footprint (25x15cm) and sharp, modern design. Judging by your replies, it seems the design with the top port is not very common or fine tuned.
The Mar-Kel seems reasonably small (20x25 ?), but the port is on the rear I think it's difficult near a wall.
M10A10 are tentating (25x25 ?) but I don't find the supra-baffle very pretty (is it a piece of wood or some kind of plastic piece ?).
If there's more designs to come by, feel free to show us
I'm a big fan of massive speakers, without constraints I think I could build something like the silbury, or a big onken. But, the second these would enter my living room my wife could manage to find a direct exit in the chimney
In fact, some transparent speakers could suit to her taste.
The room contains quite some pieces of furnitures, so I must put the speakers near the wall, in the corners.
Was proposing this Mark2 kit plan from Strassacker because of the small floor footprint (25x15cm) and sharp, modern design. Judging by your replies, it seems the design with the top port is not very common or fine tuned.
The Mar-Kel seems reasonably small (20x25 ?), but the port is on the rear I think it's difficult near a wall.
M10A10 are tentating (25x25 ?) but I don't find the supra-baffle very pretty (is it a piece of wood or some kind of plastic piece ?).
If there's more designs to come by, feel free to show us
The A10.x versions of these floorstanders are still thot experiments, Chris will be building a pair for A10p. You interested in A10.2 version?
dave
There will be a variation with front vent as well. Foot-print for the A10.2 will be a bit over 20 cm wide x 19 deep.
dave
Quite a few less than usual. Have a look at the pics in the 1st post in the link below to get an idea of what is available for the living room (be patient for them to load in)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/plan...o-much-stuff-almost-giving-away-part-2-a.html
A pair of uMar-Ken6.2, A quite small box that can be loaded with either paper or metal Alpair 6.2 with no changes, A6.2m in that particular pair. The boxes are baltic birch with cherry veneer (we use a lot of cherry veneer)
dave
Having lived with one of the many Fonken variations for several years, they get a big thumbs up here. The little uFonkens & uFonken SETs still shock me on occasion. I really should get my MAOP 10s into some.
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