I noticed the Cele only has 4 mounting points. Do you think adding additional screw points--like 8 total in the case of the LTA--would help with baffle coupling?
How does the Cele baffle coupling compare to the LTA with twice as many mounting points?
Sorry for all the questionsIf the Cele truly has more potential than an LTA then I'm intrigued.
12LTA benefits much from removal of the dust cap, but I would not do that mod for live sound application because some crap is more likely to get in the air gap. However damping the basket and making it non-reflective and some cone/whizzer mods could be used in PA.
Both were tested in the same box, ~150 liter BR tuned to 20hz.
Cele couples ok to the baffle with 4 screws, but 8 would be better imo.
I have tried many kinds of phasing plugs with the 12LTA but did not find a good one that did not make any resonance more spikier. With Cele I have not tried any phase plugs.
Some follow up...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
It took about 3 month of daily listening, and little bit of mechanical massaging for the cones to get completely relaxed. All in all, this Celestion driver is very good in my opinion, better than my 12LTA's. Typical lively and big' old sound of the large FR with very well behaving cone(s).
Where did you put the synergies?
That is old post and picture, X. The synergies came after those, and are still here, not going anywhere.
But I might bring the Celes next to the Synergies and give them a go. It has been a while since I have listened to them.
Last edited:
Tell us more, kind sir!
(This and other threads are makin' me dig my 12LTA out and finally finding a phaseplug for the removed dustcap. Some sort of plastic easter egg, trimmed and filled with putty ... )
Last edited:
the only time I've gotten satisfaction from 12lta is with the Karlsonator12 - it didn't do much with OB (~constant voltage drive) and cheap 21" helper woofer - 2 GW1858 would have probably worked better but already had the Pyle at the time. Do you think the Celestion is worth a try for my Karlsonator12? there's nothing wrong with the 12LTA in that application other than being somewhat weak motored with 0.08" vc overhang - I think by spec alone the Celestion is similar. The Karlsonator12 was real good with the old Nirvana Super10 other than Nirvana's inherent roughness.
Errrrr.... that was before the divorce ...
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/lounge/259348-im-middle-divorce-any-advice.html
Now, I've got to pack them in ... toight!
Not removing the dust cap in my application makes a lot of sense. I've used them enough outdoors to know why it's called a dust cap. Ha ha.
I'm not familiar enough with cone mods to know their pros/cons/difficulties, but basket damping makes a lot of sense simply intuitively, and sounds fairly reversible unlike cone mods. Is there a particular material or technique you recommend?
I'll consider cone mods, but I think one mod at a time is an appropriate starting point.
That's around 5 cubic feet--Pretty massive. I believe it based on your pictures!
I have my 12LTA in a sealed enclosure with "extended horizontal baffles" at 45 degree angles. The angle is to accommodate more of a PA form factor, but it does two things: Reduces baffle diffraction compared to 90 degree angled side-walls, and reduces internal standing waves. I have since forgotten the exact internal volume of my sealed enclosure, but I would be glad to calculate it if someone cares to know.
I've been playing with the xo point to the SEOS-12 horn loaded CD on and off for almost a year now. I think I've decided I like the 12LTA "full-range" (crossed ~80-100hz to a sub) and the CD acting more like a super-tweeter with the xo somewhere between 4k-10khz, first or second order. At the moment, I like 7khz second order the most, but I'm considering swapping CDs or diaphragms for a titanium one. Right now I have the Dayton Audio D250P-8 which I have had very mixed success with. I think the 12LTA is held back in the high end by the D250P-8, but the LTA definitely needs something there.
Despite CD dissatisfaction, these speakers have phenomenal vocal clarity and overall musical reproduction. I receive glowing compliments regularly-- I credit the LTA on that!
Since I cross to a sub, the sealed alignment with the LTA is perfect for what I do. Mostly wedding receptions and a little small live sound reinforcement stuff. I like doing the live sound reinforcement more though
Mixing bands with these speakers is a lot of fun.The cabinet walls are 1-1/4 thick, made of 3/4 birch plywood on the outer face, and 1/2 MDF on the inner face. I ran oak bracing from the front baffle to the back corner. All joints and the gaps created by steel handles and pole mounts are filled in and sealed with Bondo. Basically zero air leaks.
If I could do it again, I wouldn't make the walls so thick.
Perhaps I will do it again, with the Celes next time. Legis, do you think the Celes will suit a small PA type enclosure? How about sealed?Edit: Forgot to mention: xo provided by Balanced 2x4 miniDSP
Attachments
Last edited:
They are not that different of a drivers in the end (in grand scale). Celestion is somewhat better IMO, especially stock - tauntier bass, less cone scream.
I've got a bit more respect for 12LTA after hitting it with probably 60 or more watts peak on a bass guitar track (louod enough to do a small jam) - in the Karlsonator, excursion was about 3/16" peak to peak
12LTA is strong enough for the Karlsonator - in contrast, Fane's qts too high and can use sealed cabinets - I've not had it on an open baffle but it should be good and tough to overload.
12LTA files - the bass guitar track even with the camera up close, the recording isn't loud as Zoom Q3's low sensitivity setting is really low - the high setting is too sensitive for normal listening levels.
note the high quality wire and connections
https://youtu.be/yy0AcWDHWys
https://youtu.be/4xy9CCErrew
12LTA is strong enough for the Karlsonator - in contrast, Fane's qts too high and can use sealed cabinets - I've not had it on an open baffle but it should be good and tough to overload.
12LTA files - the bass guitar track even with the camera up close, the recording isn't loud as Zoom Q3's low sensitivity setting is really low - the high setting is too sensitive for normal listening levels.
note the high quality wire and connections
https://youtu.be/yy0AcWDHWys
https://youtu.be/4xy9CCErrew
Used a 12LTA for a few years in live sound reinforcement mains. Very pleased with them. Upgraded those cabinets with K12H-200TC a year ago, and although there wasn't a large difference, the K12H-200TC did clean up the higher range of the bandpass I was using them in compared to the 12LTA, around 3Khz. The K12H-200TC also produced a slightly clearer midrange. Paired with a B&C DE250. GREAT sounding speakers.
What sort of horn did you use with the B&C DE250?
I'll be using the K12H-200TC san tweeter for the time being but I expect to pick up one eventually.
The Denovo Audio SEOS-12. I have design experience with a few other horns (not strictly speaking in regards to the DE250) including round (Dayton Audio H08RW) and heavy aluminum (B&C ME45) but the SEOS-12 is by far the most neutral, least horn sounding horn in any speaker that I've heard.
In recent time, I paired a B&C 15NDL88 with a Radian 475PB loaded SEOS-12. The 15NDL88 is a better driver--but unlike the price--not precisely 3 fold better. However, the Radian 475PB and SEOS-12 is the dream combination that I had been seeking. I'm very picky when it comes to CDs and horns.
Not sure what you mean by san tweeter, but if you mean the whizzer cone under the dust cap, then let me warn you of disappointment; I was personally let down by the K12H-200TC's full range performance. For full range, IMHO, the 12LTA is a better choice-- at least when evaluating stock, unmodified drivers. I think the subject of this thread is modifying the K12H-200TC to make it have better full range performance. Been a couple of years since I read it...
It bears mentioning I evaluated the K12H-200TC full range in a 6 cubic foot ported cabinet, similar to OP's setup. The tuning was low, 25hz or 20hz.
Looking forward to hearing about your OB results.
Last edited:
My K12H-200TCs arrive today from parts express and I have them hooked up now to a small SET amp just to ensure they aren't faulty.
For now I just have them sitting on my desk firing straight up into the air. They sound pretty good naked and un attached...
Hopefully I'll have my baffles completed by Friday and get some time to listen over the weekend.
I'm considering rear mounting these to have keep a clean look. Will I need a gasket to dampen the frame and ensure a good mechanical connection?
For now I just have them sitting on my desk firing straight up into the air. They sound pretty good naked and un attached...
Hopefully I'll have my baffles completed by Friday and get some time to listen over the weekend.
I'm considering rear mounting these to have keep a clean look. Will I need a gasket to dampen the frame and ensure a good mechanical connection?
Dampening and good mechanical connection seem like mutually exclusive terms to me.
Here's something OP said a couple of pages back:
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.