I've based most of my designs around the Jordan and EAD drivers, and I've been very happy with their performance. The only niggle is the top end which could be smoother in my mind.
I wonder if I should consider an audition of an alternative driver to see if this niggling doubt can be put to rest. So far I'm looking at:
Mark Audio CHR-70
Tang Band W5-1611SA
Tang Band W4-1879
I haven't considered the Jordan Eikona as I'm looking at drivers with a round chassis and to be honest I'm no longer convinced that you really do need to pay such a high premium for good performance.
My requirements:
Single wideband driver
Reasonable listening levels
Good bass extension at low and medium volume [room is 4m x 5m approx]
Natural vocals
Smooth treble
No larger than say 150mm diameter chassis.
Suitable for Bass reflex applications
I'd also consider other driver suggestions particularly form anyone who has auditioned the JX92 / EAD100
Cheers
I wonder if I should consider an audition of an alternative driver to see if this niggling doubt can be put to rest. So far I'm looking at:
Mark Audio CHR-70
Tang Band W5-1611SA
Tang Band W4-1879
I haven't considered the Jordan Eikona as I'm looking at drivers with a round chassis and to be honest I'm no longer convinced that you really do need to pay such a high premium for good performance.
My requirements:
Single wideband driver
Reasonable listening levels
Good bass extension at low and medium volume [room is 4m x 5m approx]
Natural vocals
Smooth treble
No larger than say 150mm diameter chassis.
Suitable for Bass reflex applications
I'd also consider other driver suggestions particularly form anyone who has auditioned the JX92 / EAD100
Cheers
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Hi,
Significant top end beaming is a fact of life with any decent sized FR.
According to Zaph the good top end of the JX92S disappeares
10 degrees off axis. A wide dispersion super tweeter may help
fill in the off axis losses. Cheap but very good IMO is this :
Dayton Audio ND20FB-4 Rear-Mount 3/4" Neodymium Dome Tweeter
rgds, sreten.
Significant top end beaming is a fact of life with any decent sized FR.
According to Zaph the good top end of the JX92S disappeares
10 degrees off axis. A wide dispersion super tweeter may help
fill in the off axis losses. Cheap but very good IMO is this :
Dayton Audio ND20FB-4 Rear-Mount 3/4" Neodymium Dome Tweeter
rgds, sreten.
Of the three drivers you mention:
-MA CHR-70.3 is a smaller 4in unit. Good value driver for what it is, but in terms of response / general characteristics it's not dissimilar to the Jordan, so probably wouldn't meet your requirements.
TB W5-1611 is roughly the same size as the Jordan. Another good value unit & it does have a smoother top end, largely due to the fact that it doesn't have all that much in the first place.
TB W4-1879 is another smaller 4in unit; not cheap unless you get it on offer. Fairly well behaved, peaks a bit above ~15KHz.
The MAOP models from MA would likely suit; they have good HF extension but the oxidised cone damps some of the micro-resonances of the substrate; some like that, others don't care for it. You'd probably be in the former camp, but they aren't cheap (the cones cost a bomb to make) & production very limited -most have ended up in Japan. The standard production 10.3 & 10P aren't bad on this score though, so might be worth looking at. The 4in TB W4-1320 is also nicely behaved, though doesn't have the LF capability of the 5in drivers.
Otherwise, as Sreten suggests, you might want to consider crossing your Jordan out of the telephone band to a dedicated tweeter.
-MA CHR-70.3 is a smaller 4in unit. Good value driver for what it is, but in terms of response / general characteristics it's not dissimilar to the Jordan, so probably wouldn't meet your requirements.
TB W5-1611 is roughly the same size as the Jordan. Another good value unit & it does have a smoother top end, largely due to the fact that it doesn't have all that much in the first place.
TB W4-1879 is another smaller 4in unit; not cheap unless you get it on offer. Fairly well behaved, peaks a bit above ~15KHz.
The MAOP models from MA would likely suit; they have good HF extension but the oxidised cone damps some of the micro-resonances of the substrate; some like that, others don't care for it. You'd probably be in the former camp, but they aren't cheap (the cones cost a bomb to make) & production very limited -most have ended up in Japan. The standard production 10.3 & 10P aren't bad on this score though, so might be worth looking at. The 4in TB W4-1320 is also nicely behaved, though doesn't have the LF capability of the 5in drivers.
Otherwise, as Sreten suggests, you might want to consider crossing your Jordan out of the telephone band to a dedicated tweeter.
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JG's mini-monitor was quite popular, so recommend using a small ribbon tweeter if still available: http://documents.jordan-usa.com/JX92SG2siDesignPak.pdf
GM
GM
As the OP knows, my Jordan with a ribbon mini-monitor and MLTL designs address the issue with the JX92S treble response. These designs can be found by searching on this forum. I still use the mini-monitor and MLTL designs as my daily listening speakers as part of my home theater set-up. Thanks GM for the comment.
The Mark Audio Alpair 10s are a direct size comparison to the Jordan JX92 (cost less and sound better). But the big bezel might get in the way of fitting in your boxes. They also like a bit better box. The Alpair 7.3 is even a bit better mid/top, smaller size means it won't have the dynamic capabilities of the larger drivers.
dave
dave
Well going back to my listening room at roughly 4m x 5m x 2.5m I certainly never drive the Jordans to their limits, indeed I've been using a pair of Tang Band W3-1878 recently in utterly tiny boxes that sound ridiculously close and with the room even have decent LF output!
I'm a keen believer in designing something that suits the environment so the Alpair 7 may be ideal, however I do like some LF at low levels.
When you say better mid/top end what do you mean, detail, smoothness, less fatigue?
I'm a keen believer in designing something that suits the environment so the Alpair 7 may be ideal, however I do like some LF at low levels.
When you say better mid/top end what do you mean, detail, smoothness, less fatigue?
At modest levels, small rooms, etc and in a decent sized box ( Pensil floorstander at just under a metre work for you?) , the A7.3 can deliver "some LF" quite nicely - they just want to be relieved of heavy lifting at higher levels.
Depending on just how smooth you want it, a paper or plastic cone might better suit what you're looking for - but as Scott noted above, be wary that many plastic drivers lack the extension into the top couple of octaves of a good paper or metal.
One of the TBs mentioned was the W5-1611 - based on my own listening experience with it, Scott's assessment as to why they're so smooth is right on the money.
Another option to consider might be one of the current Fostex FF WK series - a combination of dual layered paper and an interesting ridged metal dust-cap / "tweeter" - the 85s and 105s are surprising, and their stamped pincushion frames are thin enough that could arguably get away without the need for recessing. In fact, while I'm not a huge fan of measurements in general, I'd love to see what glaring differences ( if any) would be revealed by careful comparisons of any of the Fostex FE/FF drivers surface mounted and recessed.
hard to have your cake and eat it too (unless you just had your 70th BD, and got a cupcake for every candle
)
Depending on just how smooth you want it, a paper or plastic cone might better suit what you're looking for - but as Scott noted above, be wary that many plastic drivers lack the extension into the top couple of octaves of a good paper or metal.
One of the TBs mentioned was the W5-1611 - based on my own listening experience with it, Scott's assessment as to why they're so smooth is right on the money.
Another option to consider might be one of the current Fostex FF WK series - a combination of dual layered paper and an interesting ridged metal dust-cap / "tweeter" - the 85s and 105s are surprising, and their stamped pincushion frames are thin enough that could arguably get away without the need for recessing. In fact, while I'm not a huge fan of measurements in general, I'd love to see what glaring differences ( if any) would be revealed by careful comparisons of any of the Fostex FE/FF drivers surface mounted and recessed.
hard to have your cake and eat it too (unless you just had your 70th BD, and got a cupcake for every candle
)
>>> The 4in TB W4-1320 is also nicely behaved...
As much as I enjoy this driver it has a bit of a cupped sound on vocals. Personally, I prefer it with a tweeter crossed high (piezo with a 1uf cap) adding some air and life to the sound.
Never heard Jordan's or MA's... wish I had so I can comment.
Zilla
As much as I enjoy this driver it has a bit of a cupped sound on vocals. Personally, I prefer it with a tweeter crossed high (piezo with a 1uf cap) adding some air and life to the sound.
Never heard Jordan's or MA's... wish I had so I can comment.
Zilla
Hi,
FWIW I was alluding to still running the JX92 fullrange and adding a
supertweeter via 1st order or bessel 2nd order with a series resistor
say about 3dB lower on axis with the FR. That won't radically change
the response on axis, but the supertweeter will take over the output
off axis, and completely redefine the power response at high frequencies.
Given the device I suggested, this will be very smooth. Getting the
listening angle and supertweeter level and x/o point correct is all
a question of compromise. More off axis the listening angle the
more you can raise the supertweeter to match the midrange.
A very cheap experiment would be the
Apex Jr tweeters, $1 each : Speaker Stuff
(I investigated cheap tweeters a while back and they
appear to neo Audax *, much better than most clones.)
Double sided pad and temporary wiring to check them out.
rgds, sreten.
* Cheap clones are just garbage compared to pukka Audax.
They look the same but they are not, once taken apart.
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I was going to chime in about the Eikonas, too, but I see they're off the table. I've been using a pair in Jordan's VTL for the past few months, and I'm blown away by them.
I'm curious to hear some others, so this thread has been helpful. Considering how much I hear about Mark Audio around here, a pair of them should be next on my list.
I'm curious to hear some others, so this thread has been helpful. Considering how much I hear about Mark Audio around here, a pair of them should be next on my list.
I've been trying to find more information on these MAOP drivers as there is very little about, and even less with peoples listening experiences.
They look gorgeous and as I can't decide between the Alpair 10.3m or 10.1p a pair of the MAOP drivers would make the decision easy
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