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Old 9th October 2013, 09:45 AM   #1
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Default Karlson Kuestion for X

can we manipulate response by picking front chamber shape and aspect? sometimes with the original K, there's some climb in the "hit region" - from indoor response traces, a skinny (28"H by 13.5"W by 12" D) K-coupler had 2-5dB less output in the 110 to 220Hz octave than the old K12 when both were loaded with a Tang 1772. It could be useful for the builder of new couplers to see if there's some generalizations to be made for several aspects so they could mentally balance the effect vs simple bandpass kludges. Hopefully there will be some Karlsonator 6, 8 and larger builds to compare vs akabak sims and K15. BTW, does the Karlsonator behave different in simulation than the "same" cabinet with a reflex vent above the driver?

FWIW I think both the 28" and 20" tall 8 inch K-couplers built in the last few years were good performers and better in ways than direct radiators - initial gap and aperture flare have more effect on tone overall than what will show in a simple one-mic graph. There should be some good new K couplers in-between these two heights.

If you ever get time, I'd like to see a simulation of the Acoustic Control 115BK K-coupler. I'd recommend it and a K-tube as an alternative to a midbass horn.

Last edited by freddi; 9th October 2013 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 10th October 2013, 03:46 AM   #2
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Freddi,
Let me look at this when I have some time. Regarding BR vs K'nator - certainly they are different for the 'same' volume box. K'nator gain bandwidth is much wider.
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Old 10th October 2013, 08:23 AM   #3
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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- no hurry whatsoever - by 'BR" - meant a standard Karlson vent vs GB's Karlsonator. The one example of the 13.3"W by 28"H x 12"D cabinet with horisontal slot vent vs the factory 1954 K12/"Karlsonette" gave 2-5dB more output in the 110Hz to 220Hz area than the skinny coupler with a W8-1772 - in other words I think the original K had more output in the upper "hit region" and the skinny K-coupler was more flat/neutral. 1772 should be good in certain K's and sounded good in the little (13.5"w x 12"D x 20.5"H) "SK8" (Super K8)

its strange to me that Karlson remain unexplored - if I had better health and woodworking skills plus space, then I'd do a lot more.
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Old 10th October 2013, 01:43 PM   #4
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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OK, I understand. BR is a like a 4 letter word around here The standard Karlson (e.g., K15 from 1955) cabinet is very efficient. The K'nator is not as efficient but has deeper bass extension. So there is a tradeoff as usual. The K15 also has a cleaner near ideal impulse response so percussion instruments like drums, plucked bass, piano, etc will sound more natural. The T15 design that I was working on with Anthony Bisset appeared to be closer to standard Karlson but with reach down to 40 Hz. It is more of a dual chamber than triple chamber design. Still remains to be seen if my predictions are true though - Anthony said he will get around to building one.
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Old 10th October 2013, 09:15 PM   #5
Greg B is offline Greg B  United States
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FWIW, the Karlsonator was originally an attempt to get more bass extension from 12" and smaller drivers than the original K12 and K8 enclosures. K15 is bigger, so no fair!

The relatively taller front chamber (of both mine and others' K-variants) was intended primarily to keep front chamber tuning closer to that of a K15. Nobody has figured out how to make a shorter bass wave.

I'd suspect that the traditional K12 might subjectively have "more hit" because the front chamber has more volume and aperture area. Fiddling around with BP models shows than increasing volume also increase output and Q.
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Old 10th October 2013, 09:26 PM   #6
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg B View Post
Nobody has figured out how to make a shorter bass wave.
Let's talk about this again in a couple of months, when temperatures hit -30C at night over here...

IG
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Old 10th October 2013, 10:12 PM   #7
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Anyone ever try a MarkAudio 12P in a Karlson? I have awell broken in pair waiting for a new project if anyone wants to suggest a design.
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Old 10th October 2013, 11:57 PM   #8
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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I think the 12p can work in a Karlsonator but I will have to run a sim of it in a K15 or K12 to see.
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Old 10th October 2013, 11:59 PM   #9
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
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Looks like it is effectively a ~6" driver with a good motor on it, so one of the various elongated K6 might work. SK6.5, HAK6, scaled Karlsonator maybe. A helper tweeter might be needed as I think it may sound a bit dull on top in a Karlson.

IG
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Old 16th October 2013, 02:18 AM   #10
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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how would a wider version of the Karlsonator 12 sim with say an Altec 416? how much lower cutoff can be achieved in the same volume as K15 using a 15" woofer?
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