I'm in the process of building 10.3 Pesils. Cabinets are done and I'm just waiting for the drivers to come in the mail. I was browsing the net and come across these The Sibelius. Is this what I can expect my Pensil's to sound like? The shure look like Pensils. What shocked me most is the 4995 euro price tag.
AFAIK, they're a tapped ML conical horn, aka a Weems pipe, aka 'ML TQWT' in current parlance (i.e. the opposite of what GM & I call a TQWT 
). They won't sound exactly like pensils since a tapered pipe will have a somewhat different gain BW.
I don't know any design details of the cabinets in question, but in fairness, if you're making bespoke speakers out of solid French oak in the UK on a low volume basis, the price is somewhat more understandable. If you're flogging hundreds of speakers a year prices can drop as you can hack the margins. If you're only selling, say, 1 pair a month, then margins need to be higher for the business to be viable. Depends too on facilities they have, who makes them, where they source materials etc. Speaking generally, the latter in particular often mounts up for smaller companies, since it's rarely practical for them to order large quantities of materials in, either for restricted finances, storage etc. reasons, so they quite often end up paying retail for the components that go into the speakers. They might be able to claim VAT back, although I'm not up on tax law. You get the idea though.
). They won't sound exactly like pensils since a tapered pipe will have a somewhat different gain BW. I don't know any design details of the cabinets in question, but in fairness, if you're making bespoke speakers out of solid French oak in the UK on a low volume basis, the price is somewhat more understandable. If you're flogging hundreds of speakers a year prices can drop as you can hack the margins. If you're only selling, say, 1 pair a month, then margins need to be higher for the business to be viable. Depends too on facilities they have, who makes them, where they source materials etc. Speaking generally, the latter in particular often mounts up for smaller companies, since it's rarely practical for them to order large quantities of materials in, either for restricted finances, storage etc. reasons, so they quite often end up paying retail for the components that go into the speakers. They might be able to claim VAT back, although I'm not up on tax law. You get the idea though.
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gee, the Valentini looks very familiar
indeed:
Yes, low production, artisanal bespoke work with slow grown French Oak is a far cry from BB plywood in terms of both cost of material, and the skill & time to fabricate and assemble.
Best of luck to any of the folks entering into this field - with competent design and craftsmanship, it's not particularly difficult to get excellent results with any of Mark's drivers - in the current economic environment, the survival of any ambitious business model is another story. .
indeed:
Yes, low production, artisanal bespoke work with slow grown French Oak is a far cry from BB plywood in terms of both cost of material, and the skill & time to fabricate and assemble.
Best of luck to any of the folks entering into this field - with competent design and craftsmanship, it's not particularly difficult to get excellent results with any of Mark's drivers - in the current economic environment, the survival of any ambitious business model is another story. .
Aye, although it's not exactly FH3, it's a revision of it specifically for the A7 done for Pearl. Haven't heard from them for a long time, so presumably they haven't sold anything. Not surprising given the economic conditions, as you say, and the absence of any marketing that I've seen.
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Has anyone seen the video of the speakers playing the drum solo? Is this type of excursion of the speaker okay? Bastiaan Jonniaux - Sibelius Loudspeakers - YouTube
ebiz - Mark would be the best to comment once he gets a chance to (temporarily?) decompress from his traveling, but knowing from first hand experience how delicate the Alpair metal cones can be when physically mishandled ( i.e. non music related damage), it does look a bit scary when you monitor the excursions that closely
to be honest, I was likely getting close to the same degree of excursion with my MAOP7s this past weekend, and should probably be much more cautious with this rare species
I am always bemused with YouTube posts of loudspeakers - as if most dinky little desktop sets or even worse, laptop speakers, can begin to portray what the units being demo-ed can achieve. I've heard the Alpair 10s that are used in the Sibelius in a couple of different enclosures, and as much as I quite like the little FF85WKs / Topping TP30 combo at my desk, even with a sturdy down-hill tail wind, it can't come close to what the Alairs can do. sorry, just a pet peeve
to be honest, I was likely getting close to the same degree of excursion with my MAOP7s this past weekend, and should probably be much more cautious with this rare species
I am always bemused with YouTube posts of loudspeakers - as if most dinky little desktop sets or even worse, laptop speakers, can begin to portray what the units being demo-ed can achieve. I've heard the Alpair 10s that are used in the Sibelius in a couple of different enclosures, and as much as I quite like the little FF85WKs / Topping TP30 combo at my desk, even with a sturdy down-hill tail wind, it can't come close to what the Alairs can do. sorry, just a pet peeve
A true craftsman knows how to work wood and also how to work with wood, the number one rule is wood moves seasonally but only across the grain in any noticeable amount, so a box with 6 solid wood panels or 12 glue joints has 4 cross grain glue joints that are continuously under stress and will eventually fail
Airtight cabinets can be made out of solid wood, but the cross grain panels have to be screwed, not glued, using cork gaskets to allow for movement. It's been done for hundreds of years in pipe organ chests which had to be completely airtight and were built long before plywood existed.
Thanks Ed i didn,t know the procedures used in the past and it is interesting to learn how it was done but, it still raises questions to me as a cabinet maker, as i said not a speaker builder after viewing a pic that showed a long rectangular tube glued together with mitres cut on the end ready to accept a mitred cap. So if screws where installed they should be some how elongated to allow for movement, but what would happen if these boxes where moved from say a typical northern climate to say the dessert or the tropics. the moisture content would fall or rise substantially causing sightly ugly miters or worst
To be fair some woods and some cuts (quarter sawn in particular)move far less, still they move which likely would be perfectly fine on the top of a pipe organ speaker thingy, and if you orient the mitered cap so that best quality wood we are using spans the the shortest joint you could keep an air tight joint but how pretty would it look on the top of your expensive prized speakers when cosmetic gaps come and go, or the speaker was assembled at the end of the dry season and expansion put constant pressure on the glue joint when it was moved to lets say the Louisiana. Do you really think it would last for generations.
There are way to many variables to say whether this would remain a structurally sound piece let alone a eye pleasing piece
which is exactly what Paul's enclosures pictured earlier and his avatar don't look like - and frankly I doubt a close inspection of solid and veneers of the same species wouldn't immediately proclaim the difference - there's no substitute for the look of the real thing
That said, I think far fewer of us have the skill or patience to complete such a project, and have it hold up for decades. My junior high school wood shop African mahogany side table is now almost 50yrs old, but that included dovetail dadoes, pinned mortise and tenons, and top fitted with expansion / sliding blocks - I don't think I've built anything as complicated entirely in solid wood since.
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So, Ed - you're saying that the Pearl enclosures look like veneer on flakeboard? I think a quick examination of the exposed edge and particularly end grain would disabuse anyone of that notion - sure there are some very nice real veneer edge tapes, but not that I'm aware of for end grain,
Moreover, I've yet to see even the highest quality of real wood veneers with a decent finish that would be mistaken for solid wood -particularly a species with deep pores such as the French oak used by Pearl.
Of course, I'd be interested to watch (although not participate in) a discussion on the statement:
The casings of all Pearl Acoustics enclosures are constructed from solid French Oak. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise – there is no better wood for making high quality loudspeakers. Since the 17th. Century the world’s finest organ builders have used slow grown, European oak for its neutral sound imaging and long-term structural stability.
Moreover, I've yet to see even the highest quality of real wood veneers with a decent finish that would be mistaken for solid wood -particularly a species with deep pores such as the French oak used by Pearl.
Of course, I'd be interested to watch (although not participate in) a discussion on the statement:
The casings of all Pearl Acoustics enclosures are constructed from solid French Oak. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise – there is no better wood for making high quality loudspeakers. Since the 17th. Century the world’s finest organ builders have used slow grown, European oak for its neutral sound imaging and long-term structural stability.
THE LAST WORD
I am confident that with the list of people involved in engineering the science of sound into the development of the speakers in question, it would no doubt have quit the wow factor to enthusiasts.
My opinion was based intirelly on the knowledge of wood. I have seen a few designs (furniture speaking) where the builder thought he could ignore the fact that wood is alive, until it turned and bit him in the ***.
To those interested there is a product I have used a few years ago, it involves kilning the s*** out of the wood down to about 2% moisture. The claim is that it collapses the wood fiber so it does not absorb water therefore it doesn,t move. I have worked with it, ONCE and dont particularly like it because of the fine mdf like dust, nor does it have the integrity for fine joinery but besides that who know.
Chris as you may or may not know, my son and I are building and designing speakers and such ,using solid wood mostly with veneered baffles. My son is currently putting together testing equipment (mics programs etc.) since we will be building from many different species the same box with the same driver, could this info be relevant for study or is the ear the only way to determine the acoustic value of different woods
If e-mails are preffered Contact Us ? Paul Burchell Woodworking
I am confident that with the list of people involved in engineering the science of sound into the development of the speakers in question, it would no doubt have quit the wow factor to enthusiasts.
My opinion was based intirelly on the knowledge of wood. I have seen a few designs (furniture speaking) where the builder thought he could ignore the fact that wood is alive, until it turned and bit him in the ***.
To those interested there is a product I have used a few years ago, it involves kilning the s*** out of the wood down to about 2% moisture. The claim is that it collapses the wood fiber so it does not absorb water therefore it doesn,t move. I have worked with it, ONCE and dont particularly like it because of the fine mdf like dust, nor does it have the integrity for fine joinery but besides that who know.
Chris as you may or may not know, my son and I are building and designing speakers and such ,using solid wood mostly with veneered baffles. My son is currently putting together testing equipment (mics programs etc.) since we will be building from many different species the same box with the same driver, could this info be relevant for study or is the ear the only way to determine the acoustic value of different woods
If e-mails are preffered Contact Us ? Paul Burchell Woodworking
Paul, I wasn't aware of your trade during your first few posts, but we are now all quite aware of your artisan-ship - it certainly surpasses the skill set that most of us posting here have when it comes to working with solid woods.
I note the (fairly new?) section of your website - gorgeous
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The results of your tests on building the same design with combinations of different materials will no doubt be of great interest - can there ever be too much data for the experts to chew over ?
cheers
I note the (fairly new?) section of your website - gorgeous
The results of your tests on building the same design with combinations of different materials will no doubt be of great interest - can there ever be too much data for the experts to chew over ?
cheers
Well here is a voice from the past! It's Harley Lovegrove, the technical director of Pearl Acoustics. Yes indeed we have been very quiet. In fact we're doing fine, it's just taking a lot longer to get fully up and running. We have been building speakers and storing them in different conditions, testing and retesting (French Oak can be tricky if in a too dry environment = cracks!) so we have been playing with the construction to be sure they'll be fine everywhere.
On top of this we have had VAT challenges (the cabinets are made in Belgium and need to be imported to the UK before being exported again to obtain the VAT deductions everyone needs).
But we are now setting up our distributor networks and obtaining reviews etc. So we expect to be beginning retailing in the early Summer 2014. The Sibelius has been fine, we now need to push start the lovely Valentini - it sounds great.
We are small but can produce up to thirty pairs a month, each one hand built using a very special technique to avoid any internal batterns or bracing or weak mitre joints. We are in a strong cash position, so we are not at all worried about the recession - if we only sell very small numbers, we are fine. If large orders come in, we are happy too. We expect to be around for the next decades - so we are not in any rush!
The site is still under construction but here is a link: Home Page we're also on facebook. see you there!
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