I am really enjoying my planet10 treated FF85wk pair, that are still being run in. Been about 5 days, playing most of the time. They are mounted in 15 liter cabs, with a 2"x .75" (preexisting) cutout as the port. They seem to be making more bass, and also doing a good job of suggesting the bass that probably isn't really there. Maybe because of how they reproduce the harmonics? In a way I hate to roll them off into a woofer, because of the "integrity" they seem to possess alone. But I also know that I will dig really hearing the low notes.
BUT MAYBE NOT
But looking here, I burst my own bubble:
.The Subwoofer DIY page v1.1 - Transmission Line Systems
The FS at something like 115hz, is not low. And the QTS at .55 is outside the range quoted above too.
Oh well.
But looking here, I burst my own bubble:
.The Subwoofer DIY page v1.1 - Transmission Line Systems
The FS at something like 115hz, is not low. And the QTS at .55 is outside the range quoted above too.
Oh well.
Stop dreaming. Get the best. Go BIB.
Your itty bitty driver will work very well in a BIB (Bigger is Better), a design from the late Terry Cain. It is a very forgiving design, with a lower than Fs useful output.
It does not do magic but it delivers
Your itty bitty driver will work very well in a BIB (Bigger is Better), a design from the late Terry Cain. It is a very forgiving design, with a lower than Fs useful output.
It does not do magic but it delivers
Hi ghpicard
This is the second time recently that a BIB lover has pointed me toward bigger and better things. I believe that last time it was xrk971, but I am not having much luck remembering the context/driver in question.
I read a bit about the BIB, and I got the impression that various designers would re-size it to fit the size and other parameters of their drivers.
Could you refer me to a page that shows a picture, and gives me some idea how big one would be for a 3" driver?
This is the second time recently that a BIB lover has pointed me toward bigger and better things. I believe that last time it was xrk971, but I am not having much luck remembering the context/driver in question.
I read a bit about the BIB, and I got the impression that various designers would re-size it to fit the size and other parameters of their drivers.
Could you refer me to a page that shows a picture, and gives me some idea how big one would be for a 3" driver?
Hey Howard
I have checked the BIB calculation spreadsheet (you can find it in the BIB's own thread)
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachments/full-range/309366d1351690303-fostex-fe206e-bib-bib_166_gm_v2.xls.zip
and with a non-folded, floor loaded design (this is a slender cabinet with a rectangular front and triangle shaped sides, with the opening, the base of the triangle, firing to the floor, separated ~ 10 cm from it) it should be around 158 cm high (the cabinet itself is 148.70 cm plus the separation) with the driver about 32 cm from the top (point) of the enclosure.
In that spreadsheet you only plug-in the Fr, Vas and Qts of the driver to use and voila! you have the dimensions of the BIB. Be careful with the spreadsheet before cutting wood and all...
The FF85wk does not do bass. You can force it to produce some. You can force a lot of tiny drivers to produce some. You will pay, as Dave says, a very heavy price for it in rocketing harmonic distortion. Just because it's possible to get LF from a tiny driver with a high Fo & miniscule linear travel does not make it a good idea. If you were planning on crossing to a driver designed to produce LF, do so. You'll get far better results.
http://www.quarter-wave.com/Horns/BLH_Design_Article.pdf
Hi,
There is a lot of good things I could say about the above article.
What surprises me is that DIY'ers are not all over it like a rash.
However I'll note it produces bass below driver Fs and produces
more bass SPL than any simple box approach. As it reduces and
controls bass excursion it will also play louder then normal.
It also avoids the honky midrange of many other designs.
What's not to like ?
rgds, sreten.
Hi,
There is a lot of good things I could say about the above article.
What surprises me is that DIY'ers are not all over it like a rash.
However I'll note it produces bass below driver Fs and produces
more bass SPL than any simple box approach. As it reduces and
controls bass excursion it will also play louder then normal.
It also avoids the honky midrange of many other designs.
What's not to like ?
rgds, sreten.
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+1. It's quite a popular article AFAIK, with several builds having been done that I know of. Solid box, like you'd expect from Martin, and using a Helmholtz in a back-horn can work well providing the initial upper roll-off is sufficiently steep.
None of which alters the fact that the FF85wk is not a bass driver & really doesn't thank you for trying to get much from it. Horn loading helps, but these things are relative. As in some parts of the Titanic are less underwater than others, relatively speaking.
None of which alters the fact that the FF85wk is not a bass driver & really doesn't thank you for trying to get much from it. Horn loading helps, but these things are relative. As in some parts of the Titanic are less underwater than others, relatively speaking.
Yes Scottmoose, I do get your point.
Yeah that was actually my plan for these. Originally using the 8" Silver Flute in the suggested 15 liter box, F3 of 60hz. But now thinking that the 6.5" Silver Flute in that box will likely give me an F3 of about 40 hz, may sound less constricted and will have plenty of power handling when compared with the ff85wk. The Silver Flutes are a bargain here in the USA. Also been getting intrigued by the idea of using a TL cabinet and getting really low bass, but in a much bigger package.
I did use a fe126e from 500-5000hz, and mounted it in a classic stuffed T line sub enclosure with a closed terminus. The mids are really nice. Way more neutral sounding than I would have expected.
I do think that I will make an MLTL for a 6.5" SF for an in wall sub, where I have already installed my FE166e folded in-wall horns(flat to 100hz)
Also seems like a super tweeter crossed high might be a great way to go with a nice full range and helper woofer. These would end up being 3 ways with no x over in the critical region. The lower x over would be kinda pricey perhaps.
Yeah that was actually my plan for these. Originally using the 8" Silver Flute in the suggested 15 liter box, F3 of 60hz. But now thinking that the 6.5" Silver Flute in that box will likely give me an F3 of about 40 hz, may sound less constricted and will have plenty of power handling when compared with the ff85wk. The Silver Flutes are a bargain here in the USA. Also been getting intrigued by the idea of using a TL cabinet and getting really low bass, but in a much bigger package.
I did use a fe126e from 500-5000hz, and mounted it in a classic stuffed T line sub enclosure with a closed terminus. The mids are really nice. Way more neutral sounding than I would have expected.
I do think that I will make an MLTL for a 6.5" SF for an in wall sub, where I have already installed my FE166e folded in-wall horns(flat to 100hz)
Also seems like a super tweeter crossed high might be a great way to go with a nice full range and helper woofer. These would end up being 3 ways with no x over in the critical region. The lower x over would be kinda pricey perhaps.
First, I'd like to acknowledge that it was Terry Cain who first pointed the 85K out to us several years back - he even had a pint size version of the Abby enclosure for these. With so many drivers to chose from, it's hard to know which ones to gamble on.
Both the 85k , and even more so the new WK, work very well in concert with 6-8" midbass drivers with smooth extension into the 2-3 K range - rather than "sub" drivers that often exhibit nasty peaks before taking their final dive. We've use the little Fostex in at least 3 different combos over the past 5 yrs or so, as well as solo in the "micro" Fonken. In all of the "FAST" systems the Fostex was in a tapered / nearly aperiodic TL.
Howard, you may remember seeing/hearing the faceted enclosures at Dave's place in August. This was 85WK in a tapered MLTL(?), passive LLXO at 240Hz, to 2 opposing pairs per enclosure of Peerless 830870 midbass. I've been test driving those over the past few weekends, and it's quite amazing how much LF energy 4 of those little Peerless per side can deliver - within sane limits - at least enough in my room to rattle some of the loose ornaments. No doubt a much simpler configuration would work quite well for the bottom.
You may also remember the MTM "Fonkenesque" with 6" Silver Flutes and 85WK - series passive XO - another great sounding combo.
These little buggers (85s) punch way above their weight class when relieved of any of the heavy lifting below around 200 or so.
Both the 85k , and even more so the new WK, work very well in concert with 6-8" midbass drivers with smooth extension into the 2-3 K range - rather than "sub" drivers that often exhibit nasty peaks before taking their final dive. We've use the little Fostex in at least 3 different combos over the past 5 yrs or so, as well as solo in the "micro" Fonken. In all of the "FAST" systems the Fostex was in a tapered / nearly aperiodic TL.
Howard, you may remember seeing/hearing the faceted enclosures at Dave's place in August. This was 85WK in a tapered MLTL(?), passive LLXO at 240Hz, to 2 opposing pairs per enclosure of Peerless 830870 midbass. I've been test driving those over the past few weekends, and it's quite amazing how much LF energy 4 of those little Peerless per side can deliver - within sane limits - at least enough in my room to rattle some of the loose ornaments. No doubt a much simpler configuration would work quite well for the bottom.
You may also remember the MTM "Fonkenesque" with 6" Silver Flutes and 85WK - series passive XO - another great sounding combo.
These little buggers (85s) punch way above their weight class when relieved of any of the heavy lifting below around 200 or so.
Yes, I definitely do. Those were the pair that encouraged me to use the 85wk with the Silver Flute, which at that time I assumed would be an 8". Not sure why Madisound suggests the smaller sized cabinets for these. Take the 6.5" for instance: DaveR said that his 3 way that uses the 6.5 and has about 17 liters ends up with a F3 of about 38hz(this was in casual conversation, so I won't hold him to it). The recommended 12 liter cabinet yields an F3 of 60 hz with the same driver.
I am liking the vintage walnut cabinets a lot (like my solo 103's that came to the FEST). I am planning to use another RS cab, from aN mc-1000, which is about 16 liters empty, for the above mentioned build.
xrk971,
I have been thinking along similar lines. tuxedocivic was at DIYFEST with a minidsp that had 4 on-board amp channels and a computer programmable active crossover that retains it's settings when detached from the computer. Can easily hold it in one hand and it sounded great to my quick-listen on unfamiliar speakers.
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