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Old 23rd September 2013, 07:28 PM   #51
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Microtower Castle ( EL70) is a good example of a two FR driver system that doesn't suck - mind you, they're not on the same baffle, but I guess neither are they a "true" bipole.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 07:31 PM   #52
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Yes I have. Casual listening Dave's right, it is much LESS of a problem. But in my personal experience when listening closely (only 5% of the time), there are suckouts that can make a cymbal disappear. The reflected sound will fill it in slightly, but not enough IMO. Of course, others may enjoy it just fine.

Mark didn't share test data on a 2x CHR-70. He left out the most important measurement for that kind of configuration; vertical off axis. An on axis frequency response will just look like a single driver measurement, with possibly a slight droop in the top octave if the mic isn't dead centered.

Edit to add: If wanting to listen to Full Range drivers for their "purity", why ruin that with adding another problem driver. A 2way with a XO at 2khz has fewer evils associated with it.

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Old 23rd September 2013, 07:33 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Microtower Castle ( EL70) is a good example of a two FR driver system that doesn't suck - mind you, they're not on the same baffle, but I guess neither are they a "true" bipole.
I believe someone posted measurements of that one, and there was a mild suck up around 1khz iirc. I'd say it's acceptable though. A good way to design dual drivers. Once the vertical problem occurs, the drivers beam away from each other and all is well. So ya, that would work as well. Though I never did hear those (my fault, you invited me numerous times )
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Old 23rd September 2013, 07:45 PM   #54
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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XO at 2K = less evil? - you might find disagreement with that on a FR forum

FWIW, my second iteration of the Castle Micro used a pair of CHBW70 and ERT26 tweeter, top titled forward at 10dg, and using Dave R's parallel MTM XO designed for Bob Reimer. I can't remember whether the sparse documentation for that mentioned the exact turnover point, and clearly it wasn't important to me to find out - it sounds fine - bring your measure kit by next time you're in the neighborhood.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 08:05 PM   #55
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XO at 2K = less evil? - you might find disagreement with that on a FR forum
Yah, I'm just being snotty today aren't I
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Old 23rd September 2013, 08:54 PM   #56
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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oh I think we're both acting a little bit defensive and cross-threaded
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Old 23rd September 2013, 11:45 PM   #57
howardg is offline howardg  United States
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ChrisB suggested this reading to me.

I do now see how a horizontal arrangement can mess with imaging and non sweet spot listening.

But I want to recall an experiment that I did when trying to come up with a design a few years back using 2 Fostex FE126e per side, each pair side by side.

When trying different angles between two drivers, closely spaced, on the same baffle, I would pace back and forth listening for dropout. The angle with the most even response, side to side, was 22 degrees. Both mounted in the same plane was not as good. This was without any measuring.

But with two speakers in stereo-4 drivers total, the imaging seemed to suffer compared with a single driver on each side. Not sure if this was because of wider horizontal dispersion, or being a non-point source, or something else. (This arrangement did have more punch and power than a single driver on each side).

If two drivers were placed vertically, and mounted 22degrees off from each other, this might be the best arrangement for 2 FR drivers per side to lessen dropout. But then it would increase vertical dispersion, which I think is not typically desirable in a home listening environment.
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