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Old 20th September 2013, 07:56 PM   #41
BudP is offline BudP  United States
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Boxes made entirely of that top material could likely be used in psych warfare! I wonder, is there a similar material that mimics black mica rock? Now that really would ignite..... well... something or other.
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Old 20th September 2013, 09:49 PM   #42
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Karadon has some gorgeous colors and textures their line up for sure - but the higher the percentage & size of of aggregate particles, the lower the structural rigidity of the product, and certainly the greater the challenge in fabricating a "seamless" enclosure.
http://www.karadon.com/colors.html?t=k&s=23

website sample photos of the Karadon products just doesn't do them justice
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Old 21st September 2013, 03:19 PM   #43
howardg is offline howardg  United States
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Default I am bringing up this subject again

Quote:
How much imaging precision is lost with stacked (2 per side) front facing FF85wk's?
While acknowledging that my plan to unite an FF85wk and a helper woofer is a very good one, I have some questions about same-type drivers on one channel.

Two small drivers per side have more punch and impact, and can play louder before running into distress and congestion.

From hearing various stacked speakers over the years, I have the impression that there are complex and un-engineered consequences to doing so. On average the imaging is not great. Must be phase interactions, and source locating difficulties encountered by aural processing?

Several questions:

1)What kind of steps can be taken to make two same-type drivers, operating in the same range, have the least destructive or conflicting interactions?

Wave guides? Strategic distancing? Angling? Dipole arrangements?

2)Or is it just always better to use a larger and more powerful driver, or multiple drivers for the same frequency range?

3) I guess a vertical array is one design that works well sometimes, but I don't know why or how. What is the reason that vertical arrays work better than horizontal ones, assuming that they do? I also note that MTM's are usually vertically oriented.
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Old 21st September 2013, 03:40 PM   #44
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Keep driver center to center (CTC) as close as possible and don't go bigger than 3 or 4 in driver. The imaging on two vertically stacked 3.5 in drivers is very good, at 6 ft or more away I can't really tell difference if it is single or two. Bigger drivers mean bigger CTC and comb interference (destructive/ constructive) interference becomes an issue. Vertical alignment gives wider horizontal dispersion and less vertical dispersion because it acts like a larger effective diameter (beaming with large full range drivers).
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Old 21st September 2013, 05:24 PM   #45
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Fine enough to use multiples of smaller drivers - one of the most memorable commercial systems I've heard in a long time was an early model (2001) by Louis Chochos - Omega Loudspeakers. This was 2001 - small standmouted bipole with Fostex FE127E I believe, and demoed at a local audio show by a range of amps as small as mono strapped Decware Zen C. Huge soundstage and tremendous imaging, but could use some help in the bottom end.

But I think you'll get much better bang for your buck by using one or more per side of small to mid size (5-8") dedicated midbass drivers such as the Silver Flutes I think you already mentioned.

Here's an interesting read that touches on the subject of vertical vs horizontal arrays - including MTMs

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/vertical-vs-horizontal-
speaker-designs

When taking anything I read on the internet with a dose of salt (such as my own bloviations) , I prefer the pink Himalayan coarse rock salt - makes even Kale pan fried in coconut oil with garlic and lemon edible.
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Old 21st September 2013, 09:15 PM   #46
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I wouldn't touch a two full range driver speaker with a 10' pole. Chris, those you heard were bipole? That's would be ok. Also a half way driver would be ok. But full range and front facing, no way. But everyone does things differently.

MTM is good for controlling vertical dispersion, but only to so high of a frequency before the vertical control becomes a vertical problem.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 03:18 AM   #47
howardg is offline howardg  United States
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This is how I do it. My HT rig is Alpair 7.3's as mains and a Peerless 850146 (10" BR) in the front right corner. My XO is 165Hz, chosen to avoid a room suck-out. (The rears are Fostex FE167E's up-firing in the back corners.) While the XO is technically too high, I haven't found localization to be an issue. In pop music, the bass guitar is typically on the left, so that might be an issue with certain mixes, but classical music usually has the basses on the right. Works out fine.
Bob
How do the room suck out and crossover point relate?
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Old 23rd September 2013, 12:37 PM   #48
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Corner loaded sub vs distributed mains. The mains pick up prior to the sub suck-out.

Bob
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Old 23rd September 2013, 03:03 PM   #49
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Ryan - yes bipole - one driver each front and back of smallish (can't remember the exact size) ported enclosure.
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Old 23rd September 2013, 06:24 PM   #50
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
I wouldn't touch a two full range driver speaker with a 10' pole.
Curious - have you had any bad experiences with such a configuration? Or in theory comb filtering is a big problem with 2 FR on the same baffle, and that is why you want to avoid it?

IIRC this question came up before and Dave mentioned that in real world comb filtering is much less of problem with 2 small FR (4" or smaller) on the same baffle. Larger drivers - yes it becomes a perceptible issue.

Also recall Mark Fenlon sharing some test box data with 2x CHR-70 on the same baffle - nothing bad there.
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