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The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
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Old 14th October 2017, 11:54 AM   #3911
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Yes , that's what I meant with the "all out" approach!
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Old 14th October 2017, 11:58 AM   #3912
zman01 is online now zman01  Bangladesh
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The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
Btw, how is your sub-woofer build coming along? IIRC you got the drivers?
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Old 14th October 2017, 12:00 PM   #3913
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Got the drivers, lacked the time . They have been on my mind all year, I just couldn't find the time to start building, but I am gathering tools, like router bits etc..

Had a bit of a strange year that went by way too fast for my liking...

They will happen though. I've got the build planned, have most materials. Still not sure about the amplifiers to get for them.
I'm hoping to get more spare time in the spring of next year. I'll take that time to figure out the details.
I might try some Jensen isolators on the Xonar Essence card I run to see if that cleans up the power hum on the signal.
The mains are completely isolated from hum with SP/DIF, my ambient channels are less clean in comparison.
A separate power supply for the soundcard might work too, not sure which direction to take there.
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Last edited by wesayso; 14th October 2017 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 14th October 2017, 02:11 PM   #3914
zman01 is online now zman01  Bangladesh
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The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
Had a bit of a strange year that went by way too fast for my liking...
I can relate to that Sometimes time flies too fast...

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
but I am gathering tools, like router bits etc..
Well, expecting an all-out build.
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Old 14th October 2017, 03:49 PM   #3915
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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So... Magico have their production in China then....

Nothing by it, just an observation.

258Kg is also an insane observation.... insane.

Wesayso, please don't try to duplicate that.... take care of your back!
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:29 PM   #3916
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Don't worry, I wont .
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Old 16th October 2017, 07:56 PM   #3917
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Default Mid/Side processing again...

I ran a few virtual checks on the mid/side processing. With the measured response as input I checked the graphs that result from each way the input signal was configured. So no swapping of channels, playing with input signals instead.

- Measured impulse as positive left and negative right channel.
- Input only one channel, either left or right
- Stereo input (as if it were phantom material)

Each of them will react different with the mid/side processing chain.

The left with inverse right will cancel out in the phantom part of the chain, so it will be a pure "side EQ" result.
When we input only a left or only a right signal we get an average between the mid and side EQ.
The stereo input will give the phantom EQ-ed result as output.

I made a graph of it, while comparing it to the JBL steady-state room curves:
Click the image to open in full size.

If you look closely you'll see I made a few changes to the EQ scheme as published on fluid's thread. Largely it's still the same, except I added a few changes in the "side EQ chain" that make the average "side" become a bit more flat.

Seeing it with the JBL graphs overlaid I guess I'll have to try a few tweaks and listen.
It's pretty close as is... I did mention the similarities before.
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Old 16th October 2017, 09:14 PM   #3918
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
....A separate power supply for the soundcard might work too, not sure which direction to take there.

Know its not a separate PSU but will let you know if Seasonic's newest computer PSU flagship series will help here, its tested to mythical performance and released as 650/750/850w versions but a new 550w is shipping now and as soon it hits the shelves will test one in computer that have similar family ASUS soundcard, can say from past that when upgraded computer PSU to Corsair AX series it helped a lot for that family of ASUS soundcards so is optimistic about investment. With Corsair AX performance is good enough, one can hear some hum with ear into speaker drivers when volume is set above twelve o'clock but the little hum is totally killed when music plays so don't think its a big problem and probably because my power amps have separate mono PSU, most trouble seems to be reported when power amps L/R channels sits on same united psu.

Link to review: The Seasonic PRIME Titanium PSU (650W, 750W, 850W) Review: Mythical Performance


Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
I ran a few virtual checks on the mid/side processing. With the measured response as input I checked the graphs that result from each way the input signal was configured. So no swapping of channels, playing with input signals instead.

- Measured impulse as positive left and negative right channel.
- Input only one channel, either left or right
- Stereo input (as if it were phantom material)

Each of them will react different with the mid/side processing chain.

The left with inverse right will cancel out in the phantom part of the chain, so it will be a pure "side EQ" result.
When we input only a left or only a right signal we get an average between the mid and side EQ.
The stereo input will give the phantom EQ-ed result as output.

I made a graph of it, while comparing it to the JBL steady-state room curves:
Click the image to open in full size.

If you look closely you'll see I made a few changes to the EQ scheme as published on fluid's thread. Largely it's still the same, except I added a few changes in the "side EQ chain" that make the average "side" become a bit more flat.

Seeing it with the JBL graphs overlaid I guess I'll have to try a few tweaks and listen.
It's pretty close as is... I did mention the similarities before.

Nice curves there you really good at this.

Admit its a bit over my head to figure out the MidSide mix but down the road when getting stereo will look into it and hope my brain can be trained up to figure it out , also because after trying their study for head phone curves and how good it sounds which by the way is based on sound from good speaker in a good room can imagine its serious good target curve.
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Old 16th October 2017, 10:07 PM   #3919
wesayso is offline wesayso  Netherlands
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Eager to hear more about that power supply. Right now I'm just running the original Lenovo supply but would be willing to upgrade if I can get a model that fits.

Originally, my most preferred curve, which I got by listening, adjusting, and repeat until I was happy was very close to this one. Lately I have been deviating a little in recent times. Mainly the top end was a little hotter from what I ran before. We can get used to a lot, however my preference still is with a little more decline on the top end, just like that JBL curve has. I keep coming back to it. The only thing I clearly remember is that I prefer the 200-300 Hz to be just that tiny bit up from the Harmon/JBL curve. A touch of warmth, which is easily overdone. Too much there and it starts to sound muddy.
Again the devil is in the details.

Remembering how close I was to the Harmon/JBL curves will make me experiment by ironing out the last few deviations and try it again.
I've done so before and I'm planning to repeat that test, after all the little details that have changed over time in my processing chain.

Disclaimer: This isn't an easy test, as the input (a measured result) will skew the results if there are large differences between the left and right channels.
The mid/side routine will react to everything that deviates between the two channels. So a little 'helper' EQ was needed (only for the phantom channel) to produce the graphs, but that should not be needed in regular music playback. That's why I advise anyone willing to try it, to place any mid/side chain before every other EQ tweak in the chain. Most EQ work can be in any order you'd like and still add up fine, not this one.


BYRTT, if you ever want to know more about how this all works (mid/side) I'll help you out. It can be a bit confusing at first.
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Last edited by wesayso; 16th October 2017 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 16th October 2017, 10:44 PM   #3920
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
Touching offer you will help me out how complicated (mid/side) works when time come thanks for that, regarding Seasonic PSU as 550w model it was announced at TechPowerUp some months ago but just checked Sesonic website and they don't list or mention any 550w model anywhere yet so will probably order their SSR-650TD model next week so we can get to know about its performance when also physical wired to sensible audio system, should it happen not work better than present Corsair AX series money is not totally wasted in top series Seasonic offer a whooping 12 years guarantee, and probably last 2-3 motherboard generations.
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