Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's - diyAudio
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Old 17th July 2013, 12:23 PM   #1
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Default Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

EDIT (12/1/2013): There is a 0.4X single driver version that is only 12 in tall x 6 in wide that works very well. Go to post 160 for details
Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

Here is a photo of the 0.4x

Click the image to open in full size.

Here is the predicted response of the 0.4x with a single TC9FD with 2 watts power and listening near field at 24 in (on a desk for example) and a wall located 5 ft away.
Click the image to open in full size.

Edit: Hot off the press! Sept 17, 2014 - Here is the measured response of the 0.40x with a Faital Pro 3FE25 driver (4ohm):

Click the image to open in full size.

Here is the sound clip with the 3FE25:
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Here is a nice drawing of the 0.4x plans by Bl21de3 (Blaides):
Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

Here is the Cut and Fold Razorlab or Ponoko File version of the 0.4x for a smaller Visaton FRS8.
Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

Click the image to open in full size.

Post 198 has a nice CAD drawing of the dual driver 0.53x plans by Tb46.
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----

I started this idea in the Speaker that Kicks Butt thread here:A Speaker that Kicks Butt in Large Spaces , and found that the speaker I built worked so well, and there has been interest shown by others for plans and construction details that I thought it deserves it own thread. I have to give credit to GregB who designed the Karlsonator (full scale) as this speaker was simply scaled down in size by approximately 0.53X to accomodate the dual drivers on a vertical orientation. The Karlsonator original plan can be found here:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-I...arlsonator.png

This speaker could be built out of plywood certainly, but as a foam core build, it was very easy to make (about 2 hrs) and is a very cost effective great sounding speaker. If you are familiar with my work, you will notice the recurring commonality: the Vifa TC9FD driver. This is a great sounding inexpensive little driver and I was surprised that it works in this type of enclosure given that it is relatively high Qts. I would not have built it had I not simulated it in AkAbak first (A Speaker that Kicks Butt in Large Spaces)

The initial sim shows a nice punchy bass shelf down to about 70 Hz:
Click the image to open in full size.

I then proceeded to build it in an evening, and it was quite a fun and easy build that can be done with exactly 2 sheets of $1 foam core board from the dollar store.
Click the image to open in full size.
Here is the finished speaker:
Click the image to open in full size.

The plan, optimized for standard 20 in x 30 in x 3/16 in thick foam core material looks like this:
Click the image to open in full size.
Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

And when I plugged it in and turned it on, WOW! Even in pseudo mono (left channel to top driver and right channel to bottom driver) I was just amazed at the clarity, depth, and naturalness of the sound. The bass was tight and punchy, and easy - not strained. The sounds from vocals was just wonderful, and bass guitar and bowed double bass just had a very natural presentation. The other thing I noticed was that the speakers were very efficient (that is quite loud) with very little cone movement compared to some of the other cabinets that these Vifas had been in before. I immediately just loved the rich natural sound. It works very well with classic rock like Dire Straits as well as female vocals, and jazz. So you may wonder how it really sounds, well I recorded some sound clips and zipped them so they can be uploaded here. Check them out and see for yourself, they are recorded with a Zoom H4 with XY mic at 3 meters away and stored on pretty lossy 128 kbit format so that I could fit them into the max file size limit. The full size files sound even more amazing.

I highly recommend this build, as it sounds great, is inexpensive, easy to build, and gives you the unique opportunity to experience what a Karlson type speaker is all about. I would not have gone about doing this had it not been for my extensive modeling and simulation of a Karlson, which led me to see (on paper) the unique capabilities: wide spatial dispersion, high efficiency, natural lifelike sound, punchy bass.

I will continue this thread with a build log of the second speaker box so that I will finally have a stereo pair and I will document the build process for you to follow.

I hope you give it a try - you will be pleasantly surprised, and you will have a unique speaker that can be used for a variety of purposes. It excels as a table radio in pseudo stereo for great background music that fills the room with a rich full lifelike sound.

Below are the sound clips. Enjoy!

Regards,
X
Attached Files
File Type: zip Vocals-1-mp3.zip (518.7 KB, 168 views)
File Type: zip Vocals-2-mp3.zip (520.7 KB, 98 views)
File Type: zip Classic-Rock-mp3.zip (442.7 KB, 172 views)
File Type: zip Jazz-vocals-mp3.zip (508.3 KB, 130 views)
File Type: zip Bowed-Bass-mp3.zip (476.9 KB, 135 views)

Last edited by xrk971; 6th November 2014 at 09:24 PM. Reason: Update with 0.4x model
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Old 17th July 2013, 12:52 PM   #2
bcmbob is offline bcmbob  United States
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I'm on-board but it will be a couple weeks as I need to get two more Vifas and wrap up another project. Sounds very promising. Did you consider the Aurasound NS525 for this one? I have four of those.
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Old 17th July 2013, 01:18 PM   #3
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Bob,
Hey glad you are on board! I will run a sim of the Aurasound - you will probably only need one, unless you want a larger box for two. This cabinet is very forgiving with a variety of drivers. One thing with the NS525's is that they don't have much of a top end, and you need that to balance out how powerful the bass is on these guys. Although you can do what you did with the DNA Decware horn and add the tweeter on top. That will let you experiment with a K-tube attached to your tweeter, which I have heard sounds really good. Can you send me a couple of those Vifa's while you are at it?
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Old 17th July 2013, 01:28 PM   #4
bcmbob is offline bcmbob  United States
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As reported, I agree the NS525 is an exceptional value but needs help on top. I would lean toward just one of those because I suspect two would require the 1/2" foam to avoid excessive bracing. That's not really a bad thing, but being able to get really good base using the standard thin foam core is what makes all these projects so special.

Watch your mailbox for the free Vifas, and if they don't show - just keep watching.
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Last edited by bcmbob; 17th July 2013 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 17th July 2013, 01:40 PM   #5
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
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Next FC challenge: a 3x3 array of TC9F in a 12:10 Karlsonator scale-down! (works out to a ~10" if adding Sd)

Doing a serious build and trying to get a fair balance of bass extension versus cabinet bulk, I'd probably go with GregB's suggestion on the Fullrangedriver.com forum and use a Fostex FF165WK. It would need some help on top though.

IG
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Old 17th July 2013, 02:03 PM   #6
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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I like that - a 3x3 array. Way cool! I will sim that as soon as I can. That's serious money though at $108 for the drivers, but the efficiency will be something killer, combined with sparkling highs.
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Old 17th July 2013, 02:28 PM   #7
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Default 0.6X Karlsonator with Single NS525

It looks like it can work if you scale cabinet up to 0.6X (9/15). There are some big dips though as you get farther away from the speaker. Up to you...
First plot is 1 m, second is 3 m, third is impedance (a little high - may be a problem for amp), last is cone displacement - seems well controlled.
Go for it!
Attached Images
File Type: png Karlsonator-0.6X-NS525-Freq-1m.png (33.3 KB, 252 views)
File Type: png Karlsonator-0.6X-NS525-Freq-3m.png (31.7 KB, 207 views)
File Type: png Karlsonator-0.6X-NS525-Impedance.png (26.0 KB, 148 views)
File Type: png Karlsonator-0.6X-NS525-Displ.png (26.5 KB, 110 views)
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Old 17th July 2013, 02:39 PM   #8
IG81 is offline IG81  Canada
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Did you post a sim of the full-size K'ator yet, I'm looking but can't find, am interested in impedance mostly. The 0.6 scale-down above would ~ work from my TL length guesstimation. As said in other thread, choking the TL a bit more could bring this tuning down if required.

IG
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Old 17th July 2013, 03:11 PM   #9
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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he might have ?? I'm also interested in the full size Karlsonator 12 vs GB's kluged sim (with a 12" speaker) to see what it might do versus classic Karlson. I've got Kappa12A,etc.

Last edited by freddi; 17th July 2013 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 17th July 2013, 03:37 PM   #10
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IG81 View Post
Did you post a sim of the full-size K'ator yet, I'm looking but can't find, am interested in impedance mostly. The 0.6 scale-down above would ~ work from my TL length guesstimation. As said in other thread, choking the TL a bit more could bring this tuning down if required.

IG
Which driver were you looking to run in a full size K'nator? The FE166EN? I have done that (in a scaled down one), a Kappa 12A, and an FF225WK. I can do any driver - just let me know. I finally spent some time consolidating my AkAbak driver database so that I can quickly copy and paste any one of 55 drivers that I have sim'd so far.
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