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Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
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Old 13th February 2018, 03:24 PM   #2481
yianemma is offline yianemma
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Default 0.40x with visaton frs8 impressions

I' ve just finished my mini karlsonators. I used visatons frs8 driver that I removed from my needles in order to paint them.

I was very pleased with them and I decided to built the mini k's as a test built, before I go for the biggest 0.53 with dual 3FE25 drivers.

My impressions:

1. Build process:
a. Foamboard is quite expensive here in Greece, I should had built them out of plywood.
b. Working with foam was quite awkward and I ve found it difficult to maintain straight cuts.
c. I used white glue cause that was available and I didn't want to spent money on this.

2. Listening impressions:

For now I am listening to them without the K aperture, as I ve run out of foam. They sound good even without it, but cannot tell till they are finished. I ll post more when I am ready.
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Old 13th February 2018, 04:30 PM   #2482
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
Quote:
Originally Posted by yianemma View Post
I' ve just finished my mini karlsonators. I used visatons frs8 driver that I removed from my needles in order to paint them.

I was very pleased with them and I decided to built the mini k's as a test built, before I go for the biggest 0.53 with dual 3FE25 drivers.

My impressions:

1. Build process:
a. Foamboard is quite expensive here in Greece, I should had built them out of plywood.
b. Working with foam was quite awkward and I ve found it difficult to maintain straight cuts.
c. I used white glue cause that was available and I didn't want to spent money on this.

2. Listening impressions:

For now I am listening to them without the K aperture, as I ve run out of foam. They sound good even without it, but cannot tell till they are finished. I ll post more when I am ready.
Thanks for sharing and for trying. The foam board makes a difference in sound quality. Plywood does not sound as good.

In US, foam boards are 20in x 30in and $1 ea at Dollar Stores. Nice quality Elmers brand is $6 sheet and much more durable and harder to cut.

Cutting straight requires laying on carpeted floor, use nice metal straightedge like drywall ruler, use sharp utility knife with new edge (breakaway type blades are perfect for this). Cut 3-5 strokes deeper each time to make clean cuts. Takes practice but is far easier than pulling out a table saw and making dust.

Use hot melt glue to tack pieces together and PVA to seal. Hot melt is key because your hands are the "clamps" that hold it until it sets in 40 seconds. Other glues require clamps to hold for hours.

It does sound quite good without K aperture. Bass will be deeper and soundstage will be wider and more uniform with aperture.
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Old 13th February 2018, 07:40 PM   #2483
MikeV is offline MikeV  United States
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Silver Spring
yianemma (and others on the sidelines)

Lots of good stuff from xrk!!! He's the master of this format!!

Two Main Things from this last post!

>>Cut 3-5 strokes deeper each time to make clean cuts.<< with a fresh razor edge


>>Use hot melt glue to tack pieces together and PVA to seal. Hot melt is key because your hands are the "clamps" that hold it until it sets in 40 seconds.<<

If you follow those two hints, your chances for a quick, neat, successful build are greatly enhanced.

Thanks xrk for all your knowledge, efforts, and enthusiasm in promoting this design!!

Last edited by MikeV; 13th February 2018 at 07:41 PM. Reason: minor fix
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Old 13th February 2018, 07:52 PM   #2484
Skylar88 is online now Skylar88  South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeV View Post
Thanks xrk for all your knowledge, efforts, and enthusiasm in promoting this design!!

I second that.

Still enjoying the dual 3FE25-16 0.53X Mini Karlsonators.
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Old 13th February 2018, 08:55 PM   #2485
MikeV is offline MikeV  United States
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Silver Spring
I've tried to look through the thread for a drawing of the .53 in centimeters, I can find a lot of good drawings for the .40 but not for the .53 , have I missed something?


hehejaa,

you'll find them in post #1, I had to look thru it a few times myself in order to track it down...

Post 198 has a nice CAD drawing of the dual driver 0.53x plans by Tb46.
diyAudio

and while that's a nice representation, with all the correct dimensions, I had some difficulty with the darned pdf and how troublesome it is to scale it up to a nice readable, PRINTABLE file. Curse you Adobe!!

Do yourself a favor and print MudJester's .40 Karlsonator referenced in line 1 of post #1 for how it SHOULD be done. (Thanks Mike!) By studying both plans, you'll give yourself a clear plan of action for your own build.

Latest 0.40x K'nator Score-N-Fold Plans by Mudjester available here: Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

Best of Luck!
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Old 13th February 2018, 09:01 PM   #2486
yianemma is offline yianemma
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeV View Post
yianemma (and others on the sidelines)

>>Use hot melt glue to tack pieces together and PVA to seal. Hot melt is key because your hands are the "clamps" that hold it until it sets in 40 seconds.<<
Mainly this, as my cuts were clean and straight. My main problem was that I tried to cut the foam from side to side, so I started from 165 mm and ended to 162mm. Filling the gaps took me some time. I used PVA for the side, no problem with this. Pins were used to keep the pieces in place.

I have to say that not using hot glue helped me to make some adjustments while the glue was drying.

I have just finished the K Apertures, placed them in place with pins and plastic tape for testing. They do make a difference, although they vibrate enough since they are not glued.

I really like them. For sure they beat my three 5.1 systems.

Soundstage is big!!!, it feels like sound is coming through the back wall. I have to cross them with my (cheap) sub about 80 Hz for best results, but depending on the music, I could skip that.
/
The other thing I noticed is that radio music is not so annoying to my ears with these speakers. They are more balanced, more relaxing.

They also seem to fill the room with music. The sound is everywhere, it is not pointing in a sitting location. I can move and still here the same thing.

I was impressed when I listened to the first seconds of Pink Floyd's "Money". Stereo image was very good, music was travelling from right to left and back.

I cannot decide if the needles sounded better than these. Its the same driver in different enclosures, but I prefer these, as long as they are matched with a sub.

Just one question please. Would it be OK to apply some leather coating on the speakers?
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Old 13th February 2018, 09:06 PM   #2487
MikeV is offline MikeV  United States
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yianemma!

What doesn't go better with a little bit of Leather? Answer carefully, you might have to give up your Man Card...
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Old 13th February 2018, 09:20 PM   #2488
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
Quote:
Originally Posted by yianemma View Post
Mainly this, as my cuts were clean and straight. My main problem was that I tried to cut the foam from side to side, so I started from 165 mm and ended to 162mm. Filling the gaps took me some time. I used PVA for the side, no problem with this. Pins were used to keep the pieces in place.

I have to say that not using hot glue helped me to make some adjustments while the glue was drying.

I have just finished the K Apertures, placed them in place with pins and plastic tape for testing. They do make a difference, although they vibrate enough since they are not glued.

I really like them. For sure they beat my three 5.1 systems.

Soundstage is big!!!, it feels like sound is coming through the back wall. I have to cross them with my (cheap) sub about 80 Hz for best results, but depending on the music, I could skip that.
/
The other thing I noticed is that radio music is not so annoying to my ears with these speakers. They are more balanced, more relaxing.

They also seem to fill the room with music. The sound is everywhere, it is not pointing in a sitting location. I can move and still here the same thing.

I was impressed when I listened to the first seconds of Pink Floyd's "Money". Stereo image was very good, music was travelling from right to left and back.

I cannot decide if the needles sounded better than these. Its the same driver in different enclosures, but I prefer these, as long as they are matched with a sub.

Just one question please. Would it be OK to apply some leather coating on the speakers?
Sounds like a success to me. Make the K apertures double thickness of foam and that helps reduce vibrations. Certainly leather is nice but may change the character of the sound as the foam box walls emits some sound for the ambiance. You may be the first with a leather Karlsonator.
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Old 14th February 2018, 03:21 AM   #2489
MuddJester is offline MuddJester  United States
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Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeV View Post
I've tried to look through the thread for a drawing of the .53 in centimeters, I can find a lot of good drawings for the .40 but not for the .53 , have I missed something?


hehejaa,

you'll find them in post #1, I had to look thru it a few times myself in order to track it down...

Post 198 has a nice CAD drawing of the dual driver 0.53x plans by Tb46.
diyAudio

and while that's a nice representation, with all the correct dimensions, I had some difficulty with the darned pdf and how troublesome it is to scale it up to a nice readable, PRINTABLE file. Curse you Adobe!!

Do yourself a favor and print MudJester's .40 Karlsonator referenced in line 1 of post #1 for how it SHOULD be done. (Thanks Mike!) By studying both plans, you'll give yourself a clear plan of action for your own build.

Latest 0.40x K'nator Score-N-Fold Plans by Mudjester available here: Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's

Best of Luck!
I still have my x0.4 files. It would be easy to re-scale it to x0.53 and make a new drawing. I can also make it inches or mm very easily. The k-aperature probably wouldn't fit on a single page anymore at 1:1. And I don't know if score-and-fold would still make sense, but I can give it a try.

Would anyone be interested in that?

Edit: Oh, looks like I already started. Worth completing?
Attached Images
File Type: png x0.53 Main Score-and-Fold Section.PNG (40.7 KB, 156 views)

Last edited by MuddJester; 14th February 2018 at 03:32 AM. Reason: Additional info discovered
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Old 14th February 2018, 10:14 AM   #2490
hehejaa is online now hehejaa  Spain
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Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Barcelona
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddJester View Post
I still have my x0.4 files. It would be easy to re-scale it to x0.53 and make a new drawing. I can also make it inches or mm very easily. The k-aperature probably wouldn't fit on a single page anymore at 1:1. And I don't know if score-and-fold would still make sense, but I can give it a try.

Would anyone be interested in that?

Edit: Oh, looks like I already started. Worth completing?
Absolutely, would be useful for sure .

I noticed a difference in the .40 and the .53 also, the .40 is as wide as it is deep while the .53 is deepter then its wide from the drawings I have seen, is that for any specific reason?
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