EAD E100HD in Jordan 31" MLTL (30Hz) Compact Design - Page 2 - diyAudio
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Old 18th July 2013, 11:28 PM   #11
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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hello just a brief update, I have no measuring equipment right now at hand but, i can tell the speaker starts at 25hz, I have installed ARTA and measured just with my laptop(internal card), freq bellow 500hz are by 10db too low, but I measured in a unsuitable room. and conditions, so no conclusion is possible, but the measurement shows a drop down at cca 180hz, almost like the simulation abowe. Any ideas how to compensate?
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Old 19th July 2013, 04:55 AM   #12
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Greets!

Assuming you don't want to use any more EQ than necessary, then to combat the rising HF above ~500 Hz, toe them in ~30 deg and fine tune the angle if required.

The sims assumes a 2pi space loading, i.e. buried flush in a large, flat field with the mic suspended overhead, so the drop below ~180 Hz is normally either dealt with by placing them up against a wall or near a corner; otherwise, a BSC filter is required:
http://www.quarter-wave.com/General/BSC_MathCad.pdf
http://www.quarter-wave.com/General/BSC_Variable.pdf
http://www.quarter-wave.com/General/BSC_Calculator.xls
Loudspeaker Diffraction Loss and Baffle Step Compensation Circuits

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Old 19th July 2013, 10:58 AM   #13
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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The main idea is to have non passive component if possible. But thanks for the links, the variable bufferstep looks interesting

What about placing the speakers higher, they not much taller than a big bookshelf speaker, so a elevation of cca 0,5meter might be acceptable. Still I measured without damping material and without a glued front pannel so that might do some change as well.
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Old 19th July 2013, 12:36 PM   #14
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Putting them on stands won't bring any improvements since baffle-step losses are linked to the physical dimensions (& especially width) of the cabinet. If you have a narrow-band notch between ~100Hz - 200Hz, that's likely to be floor-bounce (cancellation from the driver's reflected image on the floor), so the frequency of this will vary depending on height.

Having a properly sealed box is a must, and you'll need damping in the enclosures since this is a functional part of their operation. It should smooth out unwanted harmonic resonances. But it won't help with step-loss either.
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Old 19th July 2013, 01:29 PM   #15
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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OK I should be in 2-2 weeks back in Prague and there is a room and equipment to measure it precisely.
Regarding the damping, the Angelhair is on its way, and I have to experiment with that, as well I might have to change the bassreflex dimensions since I dont get here the 52mm bassreflex, instead of that I get a 50mm, but I dont believe that will even make a measurable difference.
I will paint he enclosure today, and will keep you updated, since I believe the E100 is a really good speaker
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Old 19th July 2013, 02:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagios View Post
The main idea is to have non passive component if possible. But thanks for the links, the variable bufferstep looks interesting

What about placing the speakers higher, they not much taller than a big bookshelf speaker, so a elevation of cca 0,5meter might be acceptable. Still I measured without damping material and without a glued front pannel so that might do some change as well.
Youíre welcome!

Yeah, adding passives to already low efficiency speakers isnít my first choice either.

I prefer tall speakers and why the original 31Ē Jordan MLTL has the vent in the bottom, Ďfiringí into an extension cavity with a floor deflector angled to acoustically add a short parabolic flare to it.

Hmm, did you mean the dashed blue line in the sim? If so, then odds are thereís an air leak, presumably due to the baffle just being clamped on, though even just air leaks around coarse machine screw threads has proven to be enough to negate much of a BRís, and especially a TL variantís, vent gain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by imagios View Post
OK I should be in 2-2 weeks back in Prague and there is a room and equipment to measure it precisely.
Regarding the damping, the Angelhair is on its way, and I have to experiment with that, as well I might have to change the bassreflex dimensions since I dont get here the 52mm bassreflex, instead of that I get a 50mm, but I dont believe that will even make a measurable difference.
I will paint he enclosure today, and will keep you updated, since I believe the E100 is a really good speaker
No, 2 mm probably isnít even measurable at any reasonable resolution, much less audible.

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Old 19th July 2013, 02:49 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
If you have a narrow-band notch between ~100Hz - 200Hz, that's likely to be floor-bounce (cancellation from the driver's reflected image on the floor)......
FWIW, historically, ‘floor bounce’ refers to the one that occurs between the speaker and listening position [LP], so it’s calculated using driver/floor and LP height over distance from the speaker; the one between the speaker/floor is just one of the speaker’s many eigenmodes.

In both cases, either the driver needs to be near/at the floor or up high enough to push its frequency low enough to get ‘lost’/blended in the room’s eigenmodes where our hearing acuity isn’t good enough to obviously notice it and if one can place it where’s some room gain to offset it, so much the better.

That, or tilt the baffle back > 6 degs to turn it into a smoothly decaying ‘echo’ with of course the loss of any floor 2pi gain as the trade-off.

In a similar vein, I see a lot of folks have some sort of coffee table between the speaker, LP, but this early ‘floor’ reflection typically wreaks havoc with a system’s perceived ‘stereo’ effects, often much more so than early side wall reflections, so for serious listening one should at least cover it with a very absorptive bed comforter or acoustic blanket and for sure have it behind the LP or out of the room when ‘voicing’ a sound system.

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Old 21st July 2013, 09:43 PM   #18
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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Hi,
I painted the enclosure, black and white works well:
http://hex.dan.sweb.cz/EADE100HD/201...2013.58.53.jpg
http://hex.dan.sweb.cz/EADE100HD/201...2013.59.04.jpg
http://hex.dan.sweb.cz/EADE100HD/201...2020.25.14.jpg

I reduced the Bassrelex to the recommended size and remesuared with 10Watt input, the downpeak at 16OHz is gone.
It is still not ideal, but the damping is not yeat final, as well as the front panel is still open for further adjustments, and the inside wire is stil crocodile connection.
But one thing is astonishing the space effect is so plastical, I heard a lot of fullrange speakers, but this one is really the top in the plasticity of the space and sound.
I will keep you updated with further progress
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Old 23rd July 2013, 11:32 PM   #19
imagios is offline imagios  Czech Republic
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One additional question, would you in a TL box put some damping on the bottom part below the bassreflex? as would be usual in a bassreflex construction or would you leave it be by intention without damping?
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Old 24th July 2013, 05:51 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagios View Post
I reduced the Bassrelex to the recommended size
?? Reduced what?

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