Hi everyone,
I'm wondering if Full Range speakers are good or not for a HomeCinema installation?
Is it a good idea or "standard multi speakers" are better for Homecenima.
My need is 80% HC, 20% HIFI,
the sub would be a Rythmic Audio 15"
the front speakers must be 50-60cm tall max, depth 40-50cm max
thank you for your help
I'm wondering if Full Range speakers are good or not for a HomeCinema installation?
Is it a good idea or "standard multi speakers" are better for Homecenima.
My need is 80% HC, 20% HIFI,
the sub would be a Rythmic Audio 15"
the front speakers must be 50-60cm tall max, depth 40-50cm max
thank you for your help
I absolutely love wideband (a.k.a. full range, single driver) speakers for home theater. I've tried many different models which worked (within a limited dynamic range, of course).
My primary system is similar to yours: about 80% home theater, 20% music and I'm also using a sub. So does your height requirement imply these are going to be mounted to the wall, on a shelf, or stand-mounted?
My primary system is similar to yours: about 80% home theater, 20% music and I'm also using a sub. So does your height requirement imply these are going to be mounted to the wall, on a shelf, or stand-mounted?
excellent !
The speakers will be put in my homecinema ikea structure as the one below, that the reason why i would like to have them not too tall,
which model would you recommend me for the center, fronts, and rear channels?
and which build for each of them?
knowing that when i listen music i'm using the Stereo Mode (front +sub) but i would like to use the Pure mode (it should sound better based on the amplifier description sheet): only the Fronts and not the sub.
Another question: Shall the fronts & the center still be single speaker or being composed of a fostex tweeter & a full range speaker or only a single full range speaker?
in term of speaker price, i would maybe pay up to:
Fronts: 150-200€ (each)
central: 150-200€
rear:100-150€ (each) (what about model FE103E)
or even lower depending of your recommendations
THX
The speakers will be put in my homecinema ikea structure as the one below, that the reason why i would like to have them not too tall,
which model would you recommend me for the center, fronts, and rear channels?
and which build for each of them?
knowing that when i listen music i'm using the Stereo Mode (front +sub) but i would like to use the Pure mode (it should sound better based on the amplifier description sheet): only the Fronts and not the sub.
Another question: Shall the fronts & the center still be single speaker or being composed of a fostex tweeter & a full range speaker or only a single full range speaker?
in term of speaker price, i would maybe pay up to:
Fronts: 150-200€ (each)
central: 150-200€
rear:100-150€ (each) (what about model FE103E)
or even lower depending of your recommendations
THX
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This subject has been discussed at great length during the past couple of years, and the short answer is "yes" - but as with all things audio, and more specifically when discussing "full-range" aka wide band drivers, subject to the standard caveat of "depends on...."
- room size / listening distances
- my favorite hobby-horse - anticipated listening levels - the "THX standard" levels are so far beyond what I find enjoyable or even endurable, that I personally consider them meaningless for a home environment
'Cause I like to expound, a personal anecdote - I recently spent 15hrs traveling time on a 3 leg return flight from Ft Lauderdale Florida to Victoria BC, during which there's not a frack of a lot to do but maybe watch a couple of movies on the personal inflight entertainment system (you try to sleep or get up and stretch your legs on a Airbus 300 or Boeing 767) . With a pair of cheap Sony "noise muffling" headphones (nothing really cancels all the noise in rows 19-20 on those planes) , I thoroughly enjoyed Spielberg's "Lincoln", Pixar's "Brave", and Joss Whedon's "Avengers". Three widely disparate films, but all which I can only assume would have blockbuster soundtracks. The stories were captivating or extravagantly escapist enough ( Avengers) that even on the dinky little screen and missing probably 80% of the sound engineers "magic", I didn't feel cheated. As my wife might attest, while less is not always more, sometimes it's enough.
As has been elaborated upon elsewhere, even the entry level of current HT surround receivers have more than sufficient bass management / EQ & XO flexibility to allow use of FR drivers.
For a modest size room and "sane" listening levels ( below average of 90dB in my case), the Mark Audio Alpair10 (soon to be .3) would be near the top of my short list.
- room size / listening distances
- my favorite hobby-horse - anticipated listening levels - the "THX standard" levels are so far beyond what I find enjoyable or even endurable, that I personally consider them meaningless for a home environment
'Cause I like to expound, a personal anecdote - I recently spent 15hrs traveling time on a 3 leg return flight from Ft Lauderdale Florida to Victoria BC, during which there's not a frack of a lot to do but maybe watch a couple of movies on the personal inflight entertainment system (you try to sleep or get up and stretch your legs on a Airbus 300 or Boeing 767) . With a pair of cheap Sony "noise muffling" headphones (nothing really cancels all the noise in rows 19-20 on those planes) , I thoroughly enjoyed Spielberg's "Lincoln", Pixar's "Brave", and Joss Whedon's "Avengers". Three widely disparate films, but all which I can only assume would have blockbuster soundtracks. The stories were captivating or extravagantly escapist enough ( Avengers) that even on the dinky little screen and missing probably 80% of the sound engineers "magic", I didn't feel cheated. As my wife might attest, while less is not always more, sometimes it's enough.
As has been elaborated upon elsewhere, even the entry level of current HT surround receivers have more than sufficient bass management / EQ & XO flexibility to allow use of FR drivers.
For a modest size room and "sane" listening levels ( below average of 90dB in my case), the Mark Audio Alpair10 (soon to be .3) would be near the top of my short list.
Generally I'd say that multiway makes more sense for HT, where high peak SPL rules the day and you're more likely to have multiple viewers so beaming is less acceptable. I'm a big fan of fullrangers done right, with certain onerous limitations from most of them. Usually I add a supertweeter AND a sub, so they're really just 3 ways with wideband mids.
With a supertweeter, the Pass BOFU TLs are great HT speakers though, with a medium Xmax 8" and an enclosure that can do "kaboom". Unfortunately the Bofu went out of production...
With a supertweeter, the Pass BOFU TLs are great HT speakers though, with a medium Xmax 8" and an enclosure that can do "kaboom". Unfortunately the Bofu went out of production...
As Chris mentioned, this is really application dependant. Which is pretty much everything audio. 5.2 audio for $750 with modest SPL requirements and high WAF requirements. Ya, full range is an excellent way to go. Dedicated 30 x 20' space with 2 rows of seating, reference SPL requirements, flat to DC bass, and an unlimited budget, head over to the multi-way forum.
The truth is, 5 decent full range speakers make for a very good very cost effective very easy to build home theater. Spend about half your budget on subs and half on the full range drivers. Assuming you already have the receiver. You'll get quality sound that is matched at all 5 locations and has a uniform off axis response. It'll kill any kind of HTIB or even a quintet of cheap bookshelf speakers from Best Buy.
Tip to save some money on subs. Buy a couple cheap used subs on craigslist. Something decent, but discounted a fair bit. Rebuild the enclosure sealed and well braced. Reuse the plate amp and driver. Bam, crappy sub is now a nice sub. That's what I did with my living room sub and I'm really impressed. Commercial subs are usually tuned funny and are a big mess. Seal them up and they're pretty good.
The truth is, 5 decent full range speakers make for a very good very cost effective very easy to build home theater. Spend about half your budget on subs and half on the full range drivers. Assuming you already have the receiver. You'll get quality sound that is matched at all 5 locations and has a uniform off axis response. It'll kill any kind of HTIB or even a quintet of cheap bookshelf speakers from Best Buy.
Tip to save some money on subs. Buy a couple cheap used subs on craigslist. Something decent, but discounted a fair bit. Rebuild the enclosure sealed and well braced. Reuse the plate amp and driver. Bam, crappy sub is now a nice sub. That's what I did with my living room sub and I'm really impressed. Commercial subs are usually tuned funny and are a big mess. Seal them up and they're pretty good.
thanks a lot for your inputs,
here are some additional information:
the living room is 36 m²
My actual speakers are Focal Sib & Cub, the Amp an ONKYO 875 and the Music a Squeezebox Touch (the Subbu DAC will come in the party when it will be available from the Groub buy).
Listening level is let say normal, even if normal is never the same for each of us, but it's not low, and not louder as to prevent the children to sleep ;-)
based on my configuration, what kind of driver should i select? some of the Mark Audio Alpair models? the same for the 5 speakers? or bigger/better for the Fronts?
fronts that must be bookshelves as you can see on the picture, they will either be put on the glass shelves on directly on the base cabinet as the center channel.
here are some additional information:
the living room is 36 m²
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
, and the "listening zone" is half of the room, the sofa is at 3m from the screen (for you to evaluate the size, the LCD is a 47") 
My actual speakers are Focal Sib & Cub, the Amp an ONKYO 875 and the Music a Squeezebox Touch (the Subbu DAC will come in the party when it will be available from the Groub buy).
Listening level is let say normal, even if normal is never the same for each of us, but it's not low, and not louder as to prevent the children to sleep ;-)
based on my configuration, what kind of driver should i select? some of the Mark Audio Alpair models? the same for the 5 speakers? or bigger/better for the Fronts?
fronts that must be bookshelves as you can see on the picture, they will either be put on the glass shelves on directly on the base cabinet as the center channel.
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I would also seriously consider a good pro level coaxial driver for this application.
This Beyma (an excellent brand) will work well in small enclosures (when combined with your sub for everything below 100 hz or so), it will be PLENTY loud enough for movies (and can take a beating unlike amny frail FR units) yet still musical:
http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/5CX200NDNE.pdf (this one has excellent off-axis performance !)
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/6CX200NDN.pdf
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/8CX300NDN.pdf
And use the same speaker for all channels, no headaches of differing tonality then.
This Beyma (an excellent brand) will work well in small enclosures (when combined with your sub for everything below 100 hz or so), it will be PLENTY loud enough for movies (and can take a beating unlike amny frail FR units) yet still musical:
http://profesional.beyma.com/pdf/5CX200NDNE.pdf (this one has excellent off-axis performance !)
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/6CX200NDN.pdf
http://profesional.beyma.com/ingles/pdf/8CX300NDN.pdf
And use the same speaker for all channels, no headaches of differing tonality then.
the Beyma seem good but the price is above my budget, i should avoid them :-(
so remains:
-Mark Audio drivers (cheap but may be fragile)
-Ciare HX drivers (afordable)
-BMR or flatcones (but didn't find anything on that, do you have a link with prices?)
i read also yesteday on another forum, that one of the disadvantage of the FR speakers are the low and high frequencies. the medium is wonderful but there is a lack in the bass and the tweeter does not seem sufficient.
do you have the same feeling?
i would really like listen my music without the HC Subwoofer, just with my 2 front speakers
so remains:
-Mark Audio drivers (cheap but may be fragile)
-Ciare HX drivers (afordable)
-BMR or flatcones (but didn't find anything on that, do you have a link with prices?)
i read also yesteday on another forum, that one of the disadvantage of the FR speakers are the low and high frequencies. the medium is wonderful but there is a lack in the bass and the tweeter does not seem sufficient.
do you have the same feeling?
i would really like listen my music without the HC Subwoofer, just with my 2 front speakers
Since this thread is titled "for Homecinema purposes", it's probably assumed that multichannel signal processing of some sort will be involved that would include full bass management and the flexibility to tailor XO frequencies for all channels and the use of separate (sub) woofer(s). Unless using very small "full-range" drivers incapable of performance into the circa 100 Hz range where XO is often dialed in, I'd opine that "lack of bass" is not an issue.
In other words, "HC" without subwoofer is, I think, an oxymoron.
Regarding "insufficient HF performance", if I was in an argumentative mood, I'd pursue that even more strenuously
. To expand on my first post, requirements / constraints for every system are different. In small to moderate sized rooms, and at listening levels 10-15dB below the insane "reference" levels that I've heard in showrooms and theatres, FR drivers can work very well for this application indeed. My own (5.1) system, certainly modest by some standards, is in 320ft^2 (29M^2) room, and uses Alpair7s in the front row, with A6Ms as rear surrounds, 2 dual driver corner mounted woofers, with XOs at 110 &120Hz. The maximum SPL that I've measured at listening position of 10ft from front row was 98dB, but generally things are well under 90. I don't want or need more - but of course YMMV.
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98db Chris! That's only 7db off of reference. Granted, 7db isn't easy to achieve, but that's still very impressive for Alpair7s. I assume that was a scene where all channels were driven? So the cumulative effect of all channels makes that a little less impressive. Pretty good though really. Amazing what crossing to subwoofers can do eh.
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