Tweeter on top? - Page 3 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 8th April 2013, 03:33 PM   #21
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Hi xrk971,

I use a Hsu sub with the FE103En's (which sit on a shelf on either side of a TV). The sub fills in some bottom end but it doesn't have any slam (and a ported sub in the corner tends to bloat without EQ). The Klipschorn-style cabs are much cleaner and leaner in the bass (sealed chamber + FLH) but have their own aggravations.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2013, 05:04 PM   #22
diyAudio Member
 
Jim Shearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Hi Dave (P-10),

I did look over the FF225wk + FT17h Met which Steve had built (and documented in the giant Met thread).

Three things I'm thinking about as I approach this:
-- is the FT17H the right tweeter for me?
-- should I put it on the baffle beside the FF225wk? (Bob B is saying no, which may go along with Terry Cain's approach w/ the Super Abby)
-- do I want another Met? thinking about using your (Scott's) FH3 style, which I see as a folded Met w/ a rear port; maybe call it Son of Frugal Horn? Return of FH? Revenge of the FH?

Thanks for helping move the thread back to my original question!

Cheers, Jim
__________________
A day without music is like a day without food.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th April 2013, 09:52 PM   #23
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Virginia
You want a FH3-style rear facing horn with a FF225WK? That would be cool and huge! You will have to run an MJK sim to see how to scale your Revenge of the FH...
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2013, 01:07 AM   #24
diyAudio Member
 
Jim Shearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Hi X.

I have been running sims in MJK's MathCAD sheets. No decisions yet, but I can say that Revenge of the FH would be a significantly bigger box than FH3. Wrestling with Hoffman's Iron law: what do I want to trade off? Don't expect a decision very soon. Since I won't begin building for a while, I will have plenty of time to agonize over the options!

Cheers, Jim
__________________
A day without music is like a day without food.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2013, 04:38 AM   #25
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
diyAudio Member
 
xrk971's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Virginia
Jim Shearer,
I look forward to seeing the design for the Revenge of the FH...
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2013, 05:33 AM   #26
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally Posted by xrk971 View Post
The best part about full range is the imaging and sound stage that you can't get with multiways and their inherent lack of phase coherence. Doesn't really matter for big orchestral stuff or rock anyways.
Done right (yes, it is simply about phase), I will favor multi-ways over fullrangers. More DETAILED sound, no breakups. The only limitation is the inherent power lost in crossover parts that makes amplifier choice becomes critical to restore the maximum sonic quality.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2013, 05:39 AM   #27
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally Posted by larryldspkr View Post
Every time I tried to add a tweeter to a full range it lost its magic!
Not if both drivers reinforce each other in the crossover region. If not in phase, yes the magic will lost. And it is difficult to do so when the natural roll-off is usually low order and irregular. Possible to make it 3-way (with dual tweeters) where the lower tweeter is a paper cone tweeter that is used only to blend with the fullrange and crossed steeper with the higher tweeter.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2013, 05:50 AM   #28
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjbond3rd View Post
sensitive to breakup as others are sensitive to crossover issues. PIck your poison, basically.
In general it is true, but don't forget the truth: The breakup issue in fullrangers cannot be fixed (or may be paralleled driver approach?). The less-detailed issue also cannot be fixed. But most of the issue with multi-ways can be fixed at higher level speaker design. In other words, all you need is good enough drivers and good speaker building skill.
  Reply With Quote
Old 9th April 2013, 06:02 AM   #29
Jay is offline Jay  Indonesia
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jakarta
Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek View Post
OK, let's start with that really good small driver you suggest, Then add helper Bass. OK, a two-way. Now they need a bit of help in the treble. Three-Way. Oh gee, still need a sub. FOUR-way.
The bigger issue imo is in getting the sub 40Hz for a truly high-end system.

Fullrange or multiway, it is not perfect without the lowest octaves. Hence most fullrange designs are not adequate anyway.

Fullrange are favored mostly because multi-way speaker design is not easy so many mistakes in the design make it a poorer speaker in general. But with requirement to integrate the sub 40Hz driver, the full-range also has the same problem with multi-way. Then at some point it will become clearer that "normal" multi-way using narrow band drivers is preferable than multi-way using wideband drivers.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th April 2013, 04:55 PM   #30
diyAudio Member
 
Jim Shearer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Hi X,

Looks like you may see The Revenge of The Frugal Horn. Just reviewed various build possibilities w/ SWMBO:
--the FE208eS BIB? glad you decided to scale back;
--another Metronome? we have so many of those already;
--a Half Chang w/ FF225wk? (yes, it would work, and better than the FE206e I used in a HC for the kids) sort of a boring box;
--Frugal Horn inspired build w/ tall, narrow box racked back 5 degrees: oh, that's interesting!

So there it is. Now back to running simulations with the FF225wk to optimize the trade-offs for my goals.

Cheers, Jim
__________________
A day without music is like a day without food.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Swap: Fostex T825 for a higher efficiency top tweeter by Fostex, Coral etc anubisgrau Swap Meet 1 22nd July 2012 06:12 PM
Tweeter side down. Woofer on top. GeneZ Multi-Way 19 20th August 2011 06:29 AM
WTB: Top Mount Tweeter warnsey Swap Meet 0 27th May 2008 10:20 PM
Morel 8in Woofer (MW265) and Top Mount Tweeter (MDT41) mmgando Swap Meet 2 13th December 2007 04:16 PM
top mounting tweeter selection jazzbearz Multi-Way 10 24th February 2005 05:30 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:36 AM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2