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Old 8th February 2013, 04:24 PM   #11
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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1) you mean 10.5 liters
2) this design will arguably sound less horrid than the atrocious hybrid enclosure (which I built several years back) , but I'd take the "tuned to 60Hz" with a small dash of pink Himalayan salt - without severe EQ, and corresponding reduction in usable SPL \ excursion, don't expect much torque below 100Hz in this enclosure
That's easily enough cured with the use of compact supporting woofers
3) nice work on the veneering
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Old 8th February 2013, 06:55 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarvanyar View Post
.... FH3 kits i think the postage makes them prohibitive as I can't find them in the UK...
You can't actually find them in the USA.

Colin (aka Toppsy) makes FH3 flatpaks. He is just NE of Manchester.

The Macassar Ebony is lovely.... and expensive. We did a pair of uFonken clad in it.

Click the image to open in full size.

What i do hope is that this project does not turn you off full range, as this particular box design conspires to exagerate what the FE126En does not do all that well. Warning: after spending all that money on those boxes what follows may be painful ... but there is an out.

From the sims you can see that with this box any bass response you have will be way down which will exaggerate the FE126's forward midrange and the 7k peak.

Click the image to open in full size.

The top curve is half-space (ie what you would get if you mounted them flush in a wall or approximately what you would get with BSC added). The lower curve is with no filters and a simulated 6 dB of baffle loss. You would need a 2-stage filter to give any semblance of flat response. You would lose some 12 dB of sensitivity and then you run into the very low xMax which means that for anything but nearfield use you are likely exceeding it, and even there you probably won't be able to really push them. Further, in our experience, this kind of filter reduces the speakers DDR (downward dynamic range) and wipes out some of those things that makes the FE126 special.

All of these things work together to make this enclosure what another member described as a cruel joke.

Not all is lost thou. The FF125wk will drop right in and give much more satisfactory results (top curve). The box is still a bit big, and perhaps could be tuned a bit higher, but they could be done after the fact. Just add up to 2 litres of solid fill. Make it irregular, stick it to the backs, sides, level with the driver to break up standing waves, and on the bottom/top.

Click the image to open in full size.

dave
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File Type: gif FE126En-factory-reflex.gif (26.8 KB, 2236 views)
File Type: gif FF125wk-inFE126-FBR.gif (31.8 KB, 849 views)
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Old 8th February 2013, 08:31 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
You can't actually find them in the USA.
After a panicky email, let me expand on that. FH3 flatpaks for the USA are currently made in & shipped from Canada.

dave
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Old 8th February 2013, 10:57 PM   #14
JR_W is offline JR_W  United States
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I didn't mean to come off as panicky or hijack the guy's thread, but as I'm in the USA I was just hoping that I'd still be able to "find" the pair I ordered. It sort of sounded like there were no more to be found here. Glad to find that I was mistaken.
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Old 9th February 2013, 12:17 AM   #15
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Old 9th February 2013, 12:59 AM   #16
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Ok here's my speaker in Madagascar ebony. Fostex F200a/FT7RP and high gloss finish.

Bob
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Old 13th February 2013, 05:23 PM   #17
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Hi Dave,

Thanks for your very comprehensive and helpful reply. It did make my heart sink a bit but I thought, well I might as well put them in and see what they sound like. It will be an education that's for sure.

I am burning in the speakers for a 100hrs using an XLO Reference Burn IN CD MP3 and some Hams Zimmer Movie Albums on an old mobile via the smsl D class amp. They have been on for 48 Hrs now and the phone and amp are not even warm.

Click the image to open in full size.

I did check with Colin about Frugal Horn Kits and he is not doing them any more for the foreseeable future. Do you have the CAD files for them as I may be able to get them made up by a company with a CAD machine?

I think the whole thing of a adding a filter will defeat the point of them losing 12db and is probably too complicated for me.

What would you recommend if I were to use a subwoofer for now?

I think when I build a proper horn enclosure then I will put some FF125wk speakers in as you suggest.

What would you say would be the difference between a FH3, Kongo, BK12m cab?
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Old 13th February 2013, 05:43 PM   #18
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarvanyar View Post
Hi Dave,

Thanks for your very comprehensive and helpful reply. It did make my heart sink a bit but I thought, well I might as well put them in and see what they sound like. It will be an education that's for sure.

I am burning in the speakers for a 100hrs using an XLO Reference Burn IN CD MP3 and some Hams Zimmer Movie Albums on an old mobile via the smsl D class amp. They have been on for 48 Hrs now and the phone and amp are not even warm.

Click the image to open in full size.



What would you say would be the difference between a FH3, Kongo, BK12m cab?

I'm quite familiar with the FH3 and BK12m, and have heard the earlier Saburo, but not Kongo; my assessment of the differences would be - they don't sound the same (duh..) , but the more salient question would be - " which might be the most suitable compromise for you?" In the case of these 3 designs, that depends very much on your room and placement issues.

The BK12 is the most compact of the bunch, and suitable for small rooms- the Kongo being a tall double mouth design definitely delivers more LF gain and larger soundstage than the BK12, but also requires a greater primary listening distance for integration of the 3 sources.

To take full advantage of its rear mouth design, and particularly the corner/boundary loading that delivers the optimal performance with the FE126E, the FH3 has the largest effective foot-print requirement of the 3. Personally it's my favorite of the bunch - but as much as I hate to use the term, the "best" enclosure I've heard for this driver is the Woden Valiant - approx the same size as Kongo, but like the FH3, a rear mouth design.
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Old 13th February 2013, 05:56 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eldarvanyar View Post

I think the whole thing of a adding a filter will defeat the point of them losing 12db and is probably too complicated for me.

What would you recommend if I were to use a subwoofer for now?
A couple of things...

I found FE126s really need a good thrashing to come on song. Seriously.

I used 15 Step by Radiohead, wired the speakers out-of-phase, and left them face-to-face playing with ~3-4mm p/p excursion. Cover with a duvet to avoid annoying people. Give them as much time as you can, then listen again.

I found the sound really changed each time for the first 20 or so hours of really giving them some pain. Apply bass boost (via phone, iTunes, whatever - just make the cones move).

Once you've broken them in...

Plug a computer into the amplifier, and use Foobar2000 or even iTunes.
Using the equaliser, apply the curve shown below.
The overall HF shelf is -3dB, for baffle-step compensation.
Then overlaid there's a broad notch filter around 7kHz. These drivers have a lot of output around the upper midrange, and this should knock them down into line. Should sound more "relaxed".

Put something reasonably neutral on (try Sultans of Swing, for example), and listen right through the track. That should give your ears a little time to adjust to what you're hearing.
Now play anything you like.
Tweak the eq if you want a more forward/detailed sound by reducing the cut around 7kHz.
If it sounds too warm and lacking in definition, move all the attenuated sliders up by a decibel.

Make incremental changes. What I've shown will be somewhere near, but your tastes will be different to mine.

Chris

PS - spread them out a bit! You'll get no stereo image with them so close together.

PPS - if you want to go the subwoofer route, I'd advise stereo woofers, cross ~500Hz. For <80Hz, do it well or don't bother. A little box booming away in the corner constantly attracting attention isn't HiFi.
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Last edited by chris661; 13th February 2013 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 13th February 2013, 08:07 PM   #20
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Bumping this again, as I've just tried something that may be of interest.

My FE126s are in ~1.5L sealed cabinets, and usually have a 6.5" woofer doing <500Hz for them.

I disconnected the active crossover, so it was computer > passive preamp > amplifier > Fostex.
Initially, it sounded pretty bad. No bass what-so-ever. The rolloff starts around 200Hz, IIRC.

So I threw together a really quick Linkwitz Transform (using the positively astounding iTunes eq), which brought the bass back in line.

At a couple of metres listening distance, there's still considerable volume available. Not as loud as it was before, for a couple of reasons:
1 - I've run out of gain before the soundcard clips
2 - I can see the surround of one of the drivers deforming slightly when any low end comes along, so won't push it much further.

Still sounds rather good, though. Its also a sound that I'd call full-range: nothing's really missing.

If you block the port with something reasonably solid and check the cabinet volume in WinISD for an idea of where the rolloff is, you could do something similar very easily.


If I ever change speakers, I'm gonna make these into my computer speakers, and build an amplifier + LT into the cabinet. Much, much better than I expected.

Chris
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