Could you say a bit more about the sound of the 12LT vs small full-range. (I've been following your progress, but other might not)
I am a professional photographer and I can understand where you are coming from. In our language this is called pixel peeping.
Even in my job (and hobby) I am not a pixel peeper. I am happy with less than accurate colors and grain in the pictures. But I don't do commercial photography I do weddings. Accuracy is not my 1st priority.
Same with music and movies. I just want to enjoy the content. If it's pleasing I am happy.
If I was a sound engineer I would like accuracy. But I am not.
seriously, You have said everything. You seem to know (without hearing the eminence) that you want the eminence. Go for it, but dont complain after that the sound is not refined enough. You dont want the best sound, good, because you will not acheive hifi result with a budget PA bass speaker.
We gave you recommendation and you dont think our opinion is more valuable then some unknown reviewers. You can find great review for Bose too!
Good Pa drivers are as good as any hifi driver, that not the issue here. the issue is that you decide of a bass driver, with not that great freq charts and then claim that you have the "feeling" that this speaker could sound good because you didnt find any negative review, gosh.
I strongly suggest that first of all, since you will be doing a 3-way, you open a thread in the multiway section.mention your idea about that bass driver. I am no pro, but I'm sure that some guy over there will be happy to inform you the best they can.
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Murphy,
I have to agree with you that the Eminence is probably not the way to go. As far as I know I have never seen an Eminence speaker really used by any proaudio guys I know. This is something I would expect to see in a consumer audio type of so called proaudio products in a place like Guitar Center or the like. You are never going to see someone replace a JBL or EV or many other true proaudio drivers with an Eminence. Just not going to happen. It is nothing but a cheap imitation of a true high end pro driver. For what is being looked for here he would be much better off with either a real pro driver or a much better audiophile type speaker from someone else. Anyone using a loudspeaker that is being used for any type of guitar application for a musical reproduction system is looking in the wrong place. If it sounds good on an electric guitar it is not going to be a good choice for a playback system. Guitars require a large amount of cone cry, distortion, to make them sound like what we are use to, not something to use the way they are being proposed here.
I have to agree with you that the Eminence is probably not the way to go. As far as I know I have never seen an Eminence speaker really used by any proaudio guys I know. This is something I would expect to see in a consumer audio type of so called proaudio products in a place like Guitar Center or the like. You are never going to see someone replace a JBL or EV or many other true proaudio drivers with an Eminence. Just not going to happen. It is nothing but a cheap imitation of a true high end pro driver. For what is being looked for here he would be much better off with either a real pro driver or a much better audiophile type speaker from someone else. Anyone using a loudspeaker that is being used for any type of guitar application for a musical reproduction system is looking in the wrong place. If it sounds good on an electric guitar it is not going to be a good choice for a playback system. Guitars require a large amount of cone cry, distortion, to make them sound like what we are use to, not something to use the way they are being proposed here.
No I don't know. I cannot claim I know before I hear the speaker. I just read reviews and user comments and I am trying to imagine how the speaker will sound based on the commonality of the comments. Seriously if I had seen even one comment bashing those speakers I would have a completely different opinion right now. The fact here is that neither me or you have hear the speaker and therefore our opinions are just educated guesses.
No I don't want the best sound, that would cost me a fortune.
I only want good, pleasing sound and I am willing to sacrifice accuracy as a trade-off.
Your opinion is just as valuable as anyone else's. I don't know personally anyone of you so I don't know whose opinion is more valuable.
However I tend to favor the opinions of people that have actually heard the speaker.
That is a really sound advice
I am risky and I like challenges.
I also like to go against the wave (I will not p*** again the wind though, I am not that dumb).
What intrigued me to try that driver is the fact that it has being the base of a HiFi speaker with great reviews (the Tekton Lore).
The driver used in that speaker could be modified or custom build for that particular speaker and not stock. Nobody seems to be quite sure about that.
It looks stock and even though it's designer says that is has being modified, he doesn't say what has being modified.
It may only be that he is saying so to protect his sales.
Worse case scenario, the driver in the Lore performs well because of the modifications. Even then, the stock driver performs remarkably well from 45-2.000Hz and has useful extension up to 4K.
I believe that if there have being some modifications, they would be to improve the high frequency extension to make it work nicely without a crossover.
In that case a proper crossover at 2KHz will probably be enough with the stock driver.
O.K. I said I want to avoid the crossover, but if nothing else works at least I will not throw the drivers in the garbage.
Do I want loud? Well, sometimes I do. I really miss the dynamics of my Klipsch Heresy II.
I sold that speaker because I couldn't stand the harsh treble but I was much younger then and I could hear all the harshness it was throwing out.
Maybe it was just a bad match with my Naim amplifier because it sounded very different that the demo I heard driven by a low power tube amplifier.
It was also lacking in bass for a 12"woofer.
After I sold it I couldn't find anything that will give me similar dynamics and smooth mid-highs at the same time.
All the speakers I tried after the Heresy had deeper bass (most of the limes not tight enough though), smoother mid/highs, better imaging but none of them had the dynamics of the Klipsch.
This 10" driver looks like it will have similar dynamics, deeper bass and if I am lucky it will also have smoother mids.
Coupled with a smooth tweeter it should be very close to what I am looking for.
In the end I may be entirely wrong and end up with a speaker I do not enjoy but that can be the case with any other choice.
I guess I will never know unless I try.
I also like to go against the wave (I will not p*** again the wind though, I am not that dumb
).What intrigued me to try that driver is the fact that it has being the base of a HiFi speaker with great reviews (the Tekton Lore).
The driver used in that speaker could be modified or custom build for that particular speaker and not stock. Nobody seems to be quite sure about that.
It looks stock and even though it's designer says that is has being modified, he doesn't say what has being modified.
It may only be that he is saying so to protect his sales.
Worse case scenario, the driver in the Lore performs well because of the modifications. Even then, the stock driver performs remarkably well from 45-2.000Hz and has useful extension up to 4K.
I believe that if there have being some modifications, they would be to improve the high frequency extension to make it work nicely without a crossover.
In that case a proper crossover at 2KHz will probably be enough with the stock driver.
O.K. I said I want to avoid the crossover, but if nothing else works at least I will not throw the drivers in the garbage.
Do I want loud? Well, sometimes I do. I really miss the dynamics of my Klipsch Heresy II.
I sold that speaker because I couldn't stand the harsh treble but I was much younger then and I could hear all the harshness it was throwing out.
Maybe it was just a bad match with my Naim amplifier because it sounded very different that the demo I heard driven by a low power tube amplifier.
It was also lacking in bass for a 12"woofer.
After I sold it I couldn't find anything that will give me similar dynamics and smooth mid-highs at the same time.
All the speakers I tried after the Heresy had deeper bass (most of the limes not tight enough though), smoother mid/highs, better imaging but none of them had the dynamics of the Klipsch.
This 10" driver looks like it will have similar dynamics, deeper bass and if I am lucky it will also have smoother mids.
Coupled with a smooth tweeter it should be very close to what I am looking for.
In the end I may be entirely wrong and end up with a speaker I do not enjoy but that can be the case with any other choice.
I guess I will never know unless I try.
Well I heard a zu based on an eminence and definitely modified. It was a highly etertaining sound but not the last word in microdetail. For that a hifi fr driver like a markaudio is better. Not to mention that it will become a standard 3 way compared your original question for a driver until 10k.
Do a sim in Winisd to better predict the bass response of the eminence.
In the pro area, also check coaxials. For example Beyma have interesting 8 and 10 inch models that could work well in a small box if you add your subwoofer. My own main speakers use the out of production pro coaxial beyma 8bx.
Eminence offers a 10" coaxial as well, i once saw a quite cool design with it, it got good comments too:
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/index_hifi_en.htm?http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/ct235_en.htm
If you find the plans for CT235 then you have an affordable and proven design along what you want, and the filter design should be ok as well.
Do a sim in Winisd to better predict the bass response of the eminence.
In the pro area, also check coaxials. For example Beyma have interesting 8 and 10 inch models that could work well in a small box if you add your subwoofer. My own main speakers use the out of production pro coaxial beyma 8bx.
Eminence offers a 10" coaxial as well, i once saw a quite cool design with it, it got good comments too:
http://www.lautsprechershop.de/index_hifi_en.htm?http://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/ct235_en.htm
If you find the plans for CT235 then you have an affordable and proven design along what you want, and the filter design should be ok as well.
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>>> Godzilla seems to like the Beta 12LTA. Personally, I don't. But who am I to point to a graph and say he's wrong.
Thank you Tux. You are a gentleman.
I thought I responded to this already about the 12lta but I guess I did not click the post button... I use this driver on an open baffle. I've built my main system around it. I own Fostex and TB and they are also excellent but there's something about the 12lta that allows me to forget about the system and listen to the music. It does not go deep enough in a sealed (or ported) 2.5cf cabinet. I've read it's been used with good results in 4 and 5cf cabinets but that's larger than I wanted in my home. I think it works well on open baffle and in a small sealed cabinet down to about 150Hz. You will need a subwoofer and a helper tweeter somewhere after 10kHz. But the driver pumps out 97db per watt and if you cut out the dustcap it will sound smoother than in stock form. It's a bit ragged but covers a large portion of the music without a crossover. There are measurements on the forum somewhere that coincided nicely to my listening impressions. I love the driver. It easily and effortlessly fills a room with sound. Tailor to taste with bass and treble support... and enjoy!
I would not shy away from Eminence drivers for the home. They may not be the most refined sounding drivers but they are efficient, well made and certainly pump out the volume. They are built differently than the more fragile drivers we typically discuss and they do sound different.
After spending years on trying to build a flat sounding system and realizing their are too many variables to overcome (my personal conclusion... your's may be different) I decided to try Eminence and for me it was a great choice.
Zilla
Thank you Tux. You are a gentleman.
I thought I responded to this already about the 12lta but I guess I did not click the post button... I use this driver on an open baffle. I've built my main system around it. I own Fostex and TB and they are also excellent but there's something about the 12lta that allows me to forget about the system and listen to the music. It does not go deep enough in a sealed (or ported) 2.5cf cabinet. I've read it's been used with good results in 4 and 5cf cabinets but that's larger than I wanted in my home. I think it works well on open baffle and in a small sealed cabinet down to about 150Hz. You will need a subwoofer and a helper tweeter somewhere after 10kHz. But the driver pumps out 97db per watt and if you cut out the dustcap it will sound smoother than in stock form. It's a bit ragged but covers a large portion of the music without a crossover. There are measurements on the forum somewhere that coincided nicely to my listening impressions. I love the driver. It easily and effortlessly fills a room with sound. Tailor to taste with bass and treble support... and enjoy!
I would not shy away from Eminence drivers for the home. They may not be the most refined sounding drivers but they are efficient, well made and certainly pump out the volume. They are built differently than the more fragile drivers we typically discuss and they do sound different.
After spending years on trying to build a flat sounding system and realizing their are too many variables to overcome (my personal conclusion... your's may be different) I decided to try Eminence and for me it was a great choice.
Zilla
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