Hi All,
I've recently been reading about the fullrange drivers on the interweb and couldn't resist purchasing a pair of 12p. I finished a mini DSP 2 way with B&C drivers and 2 subwoofers just because I could. Then moved to a small place and had to down size. Even I would like a smaller footprint.
Anyways, to the question. My listening space is roughly 8 X 7 meters and I'd like as small as footprint as possible without giving up much in performance. I know, the eternal question.
Do you experienced 12p builders suggest the pensil or superpensil build for this space? I do not want to use a subwoofer because of the extra footprint, but maybe the regular pensil with bass augumentation is the way to go?
Side note, I have roughly 40 hours on breakin on these so far. Parts express 0.75 cubed feet box ported to around 58hz with topping tp60 as my interim setup. I've had to rethink my views on dynamics with these drivers. They continue to improve and don't feel the need to suppliment the high end. I'm having a tough time keeping the hand away from the increase volume button.
Any suggestions on box type outside of the above is also welcome. Thank you in advance.
I've recently been reading about the fullrange drivers on the interweb and couldn't resist purchasing a pair of 12p. I finished a mini DSP 2 way with B&C drivers and 2 subwoofers just because I could. Then moved to a small place and had to down size. Even I would like a smaller footprint.
Anyways, to the question. My listening space is roughly 8 X 7 meters and I'd like as small as footprint as possible without giving up much in performance. I know, the eternal question.
Do you experienced 12p builders suggest the pensil or superpensil build for this space? I do not want to use a subwoofer because of the extra footprint, but maybe the regular pensil with bass augumentation is the way to go?
Side note, I have roughly 40 hours on breakin on these so far. Parts express 0.75 cubed feet box ported to around 58hz with topping tp60 as my interim setup. I've had to rethink my views on dynamics with these drivers. They continue to improve and don't feel the need to suppliment the high end. I'm having a tough time keeping the hand away from the increase volume button.
Any suggestions on box type outside of the above is also welcome. Thank you in advance.
That's a good sized room. I'd build SuperPencils if the box size appeals to you. Woden Avebury would be really cool, but a much taller and more complex build.
http://www.wodendesign.com/avebury.html
jeff
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Thanks for the info Jeff. I will definitely take a look at that design. My initial thinking was the SuperPensil as well but dosen't hurt to take a harder look at all the options, especially since I'm a flip flopper.
I think the 12P will be in the room for an long while so I'm hoping to avoid building multiple enclosures.
I'm starting to understand why some people have such strong feelings regarding fullrange drivers. The Avebury is definitely larger, wow!
Do you feel there is a large difference in extension between the enclosures in a real room environment (of course trying to exclude major room variables)?
Thanks,
Mike
I think the 12P will be in the room for an long while so I'm hoping to avoid building multiple enclosures.
I'm starting to understand why some people have such strong feelings regarding fullrange drivers. The Avebury is definitely larger, wow!
Do you feel there is a large difference in extension between the enclosures in a real room environment (of course trying to exclude major room variables)?
Thanks,
Mike
Not having heard the Aveburys, I can only speculate that they could sound very impressive, based on my limited exposure to other smaller Woden designs.
jeff
Yeah! I like the Woden Avebury for the A12P. It looks an impressive design, but not for the feint of heart. Not the most practical design, but if I had the scope/room for it - I'd love to try that myself someday. I'd just wanna make sure it didn't topple on anyone. But I think it would work great with the A12P.
Good point. I'd probably have to fix the tops to the wall as these will be sitting on carpet. They would be nice to hear for comparison though.
If you didn't wanna make holes in ceiling, the design could lend itself to some kind of buttress or 'outrigger' type feet to increase the footprint/increase stability. Imagine a couple of half-cylindrical fins/buttresses running down either side - similar to fins on a rocket, tapering towards the top, wider at the bottom. This would also help break up the boxy appearance. It would be a pretty 'committed' build. But end result would be impressive.
Thanks for the info guys! Sounds like the Avebury or large TL might be the definitive answer to the space. I'll have to do some more research but its starting to sound like the SuperPensil is a minimum enclosure size for this room if no sub is to be used. The Avebury is a bit ambitous for me right now and I don't want to crush my guest with 73" slab of wood!! Although..........
After the SuperPensil I might take my time and build the Avebury. Thanks for the suggestions, it is what was needed to make the decision.
Looking forward to maximizing this driver, it deserves it!
Best Regards,
Mike
After the SuperPensil I might take my time and build the Avebury. Thanks for the suggestions, it is what was needed to make the decision.
Looking forward to maximizing this driver, it deserves it!
Best Regards,
Mike
I heard the Superpensils with A12P and I liked them so much that I immediately bought a pair of A12P. during most normal music listening the bass should be sufficient, and they are already quite big!
I have not yet made enclosures for them, but previously did this simulation in WinISD (30 litres box tuned to 55hz, vent diameter 10.27cm, vent length 19.47 cm :
Not theoretically ideal but the "hump and valley" curve is still pretty flat. Could be interesting.
Another good approach could be the small standmount boxes for the A12P (see thread in the fullrange section), combined with a sub. Since I meanwhile have a KRK sub in the computer room and I could move it to the living room a sit's overkill for my computer use, i am thinking that this could be a good approach. I should be able to adjust the sub to the A12P satellites in a good way. With a girlfriend who cares about loudspeaker size, this seems more and more the most suitable option for me...
I have not yet made enclosures for them, but previously did this simulation in WinISD (30 litres box tuned to 55hz, vent diameter 10.27cm, vent length 19.47 cm :
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Not theoretically ideal but the "hump and valley" curve is still pretty flat. Could be interesting.
Another good approach could be the small standmount boxes for the A12P (see thread in the fullrange section), combined with a sub. Since I meanwhile have a KRK sub in the computer room and I could move it to the living room a sit's overkill for my computer use, i am thinking that this could be a good approach. I should be able to adjust the sub to the A12P satellites in a good way. With a girlfriend who cares about loudspeaker size, this seems more and more the most suitable option for me...
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Thanks talaerts for the info! Good to see the graphs! I wanted to stay away from the SAT/SUB system for this room. If I was going that way, I think I'd try the 7.3 for the sats.
That said, might have to try that anyways as I'm really starting to like these drivers! I can't wait to get the 12P in a larger enclosure. There is something about this simplicity compared to the 3 way active system. I can't turn it up to do a comparison with my old system but, as of right now, I find nothing lacking. I hear ya on the space issue though. It's a nasty compromise because when I hear "lifestyle" system, awesome, large horns with unlimited headroom....the list goes on, but I don't think the wife hears the same thing with the word "lifestyle" hehe
Mike
That said, might have to try that anyways as I'm really starting to like these drivers! I can't wait to get the 12P in a larger enclosure. There is something about this simplicity compared to the 3 way active system. I can't turn it up to do a comparison with my old system but, as of right now, I find nothing lacking. I hear ya on the space issue though. It's a nasty compromise because when I hear "lifestyle" system, awesome, large horns with unlimited headroom....the list goes on, but I don't think the wife hears the same thing with the word "lifestyle" hehe
Mike
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Mike, if you cut and glue a cardboard box of the size of the SuperPensil, I think that your wife may already complain. It is really pretty big. That's my only negative about it, the sound was beautiful.
I have come to think, however, that I would have preferred an A12P with lower sensitivity (and equal sound quality) that would be more at ease in a smaller box.
I have come to think, however, that I would have preferred an A12P with lower sensitivity (and equal sound quality) that would be more at ease in a smaller box.
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