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Old 20th January 2013, 11:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpirosZ View Post
I just found a shop with some variety.
I'd be looking here, 2 per speaker if doable:

Europe Audio Woofers 10"

Europe Audio Woofers 8"

Europe Audio Woofers 6.5"

Europe Audio Woofers 6"

Europe Audio Woofers 7"

dave
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Old 21st January 2013, 06:16 AM   #12
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Dave, my decision on the FF85WK was heavily influenced by your comments, however the only woofer available from the ones you tried is the Peerless but I don't think I want to rely on a 4"woofer for my purposes.
I have found some in my price range that I am considering (I raised the budget to approximately 200euros/pair).
Precision Devices PD.8BM20
Visaton W200 S-8
SB Acoustics SB23NRXS45-8
Seas CA22RNY

Dayton RS225-8


Has somebody tried any of them?
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Old 21st January 2013, 06:31 AM   #13
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Oops I just saw Daves last post with all the woofer recomendations. I'll check them out.
Thanks Dave.
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Old 21st January 2013, 07:20 AM   #14
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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I forgot to mention that the setup will be used in a 17sq/m room and that I have not really decided on what I am going to use to power the woofers.
Perhaps a used low cost power amplifier (Rotel RB850/960 or similar if I can find one) or a professional 4channel power amplifier that I will also use to power the subs.
The FF85WKs will be driven from the AV amplifier so all I can do to cross them is use the build in High Pass of the amplifier (which I believe is <100Hz) plus a simple first order passive filter around 300Hz. The woofer can be crossed with a line level passive crossover unless I end up with a plate amplifier with a build in crossover or a two way electronic crossover..
Cost elevates quickly though.

Perhaps I could live with the high sensitivity Precision Devices 8" and a passive crossover as a more cost effective solution but even though the manufacturer says that it will work in a 20lt enclosure I run it through WinIS and it showed 331lt for a sealed enclosure. Perhaps I did something wrong? I don't know.

Also the Seas driver has 91db sensitivity and it may be suitable for a passive crossover.
I am only considering a passive crossover if it can be made simple. If not it may not worth trying.

Last edited by SpirosZ; 21st January 2013 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 21st January 2013, 10:07 AM   #15
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Dave I just saw that on another thread you mentioned the Mark Audio CHP-70 and you also provided a link to a european store.
When I was making my decisions I couldn't locate a store that carries MA speakers so I didn't even consider them.
How does it compare to the FF85WK in mid-highs?
If it is about equal I may change my plans as these could be used with a 100Hz crossover and a sub and avoid the Sub+woofer+fullrange config I was thinking.
In that case I can replace the FF85WK with the MA CHP-70 and go straight for a pair of 10 or 12 inch subs.
However I have the impression that if I stick to my original plan I will have better dynamics and higher SPL.
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Old 21st January 2013, 10:13 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpirosZ View Post
Dave I just saw that on another thread you mentioned the Mark Audio CHP-70 and you also provided a link to a european store.
When I was making my decisions I couldn't locate a store that carries MA speakers so I didn't even consider them.
How does it compare to the FF85WK in mid-highs?
If it is about equal I may change my plans as these could be used with a 100Hz crossover and a sub and avoid the Sub+woofer+fullrange config I was thinking.
In that case I can replace the FF85WK with the MA CHP-70 and go straight for a pair of 10 or 12 inch subs.
However I have the impression that if I stick to my original plan I will have better dynamics and higher SPL.
The FF85 & the Alpair 7.3 (maybe alpair 6.2m -- 6.2p has a soft top (on purpose)) are in the same league mid/top, A7 has the edge and goes much lower. CHP/EL70 don't equal them mid/top, but go lower, are very good, and depending on your room and how much quantity of bass you need, a sub may not be needed. The CHP gen 1 that rumoh has a killer value.

dave
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Old 21st January 2013, 12:10 PM   #17
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Dave I am going after a Home Theater system.
The room is 17sq/m but I don't think I can get away with no sub. Do you think that such a small driver can give me the dynamics I want if I let it handle frequencies lower than 300Hz?
Remember that in my mind I have the dynamics of the Klipsch Heresy II.
That's what I am after and with the addition of a subwoofer I hope I am going to have some serious bottom end as well that the Klipsch was lacking.
Fast, tight, extended but controlled bass combined with lifelike vocals and airy highs is my goal and I expect to get it by choosing the right components for the job.
I may have to change my plans completely and go let's say for an Alpair 12.2 if that's what I need to get the dynamics I want but i will do that only if I can get top class mids-highs from them.
Till now I thought that the combination of a smooth sounding full range driver handling everything from around 300Hz up and a more powerful larger woofer should give me the results I am looking for but it seems that if I can't make it work with a passive crossover it is going to cost a lot more than I was hoping for.
That's why I am also looking for alternative solutions.
So till now I have these possible combinations in my mind:
1) Fostex FF85WK + 8" woofer with passive crossover. Plus one or two 12"subwoofers.
2) Mark Audio Alpair 7.3 covering the entire range from 80Hz up + 2X12"subwoofers
3) Mark Audio Alpair 12.2 + 2X12"subwoofers.

What do you think?
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Old 21st January 2013, 01:28 PM   #18
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Geez you're in a tough situation given your constraints for budget and cross over. I'd be tempted to run a larger 4" full ranger that can hit 100hz sealed. The rest those on top of 12" subs and use the cross over in your avr. I'm personally running a 3" tang band crossed at 300hz to an 8" silver flute using a minidsp. Then that is crossed to 4 12" subs at 90hz using my avr. The other night I watched the new batman movie at theatre levels (but without the theatre crappy sound) and the speakers held on. In the past I've run my EL70 down to 90hz and let the subs take over from there, and no, the dynamics are not the same. But at 120hz it probably would have been closer. But then you're faced with localization issues.

I'd be tempted to do the FAST method if I were you, but it might get a bit expensive. Maybe look at cheaper woofers. The silver Flute W20RC-08 would probably make a good sensitivity match after baffle step compensation. And cost a whole lot less than some of these others.
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Old 21st January 2013, 01:30 PM   #19
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This is new to me! FW200 - Fountek 8 inch woofer aluminium basket - Europe Audio
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Old 21st January 2013, 02:21 PM   #20
SpirosZ is offline SpirosZ  Greece
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Thanks for the contribution Tuxedocivic.
Your setup is somehow similar to what I am after.
My initial plan was to get 3XFF85WKs and 3X6-10 inch woofers (with 8" being the best compromise between price/performance/enclosure size) for L/C/R and 2XFF225WK to use as full range surround speakers (I also had some ideas about making them omni-directional).
One or two 12" subs were going to be added afterwards to add some low end punch.
At first I had in my mind a simple passive XO for the 8"+FF85WK but after reading some threads I figured out that it would be quite difficult to find a woofer that will match easily with a simple XO and I had to go the Bi-amp way.
At first I didn't gave it too much thought and thought OK I'll just do that; but after a while it became obvious that this was going to exceed my budget a long way.
That's when I started looking for alternative solutions.
Unfortunately I cant find the Silver flutes anywhere but I have found at least two 8"drivers that may be suitable.
It is the SEAS CA22RNY that has 91db sensitivity, and the PRECISION DEVICES PD.8BM20 with 92db sensitivity. I have not heard any one of them and I have not make an enclosure simulation to see if I can actually get them to work in a relatively small enclosure.
If I can get them to work with a simple passive XO I will save enough money to afford better subs and get 2 of them.
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