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Old 11th January 2013, 05:41 PM   #1
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Default maybe im crazy but...3" FAST system?

hi folks.

Im looking for 3" bass driver suggestions for a FAST build. It will likely feature W-W-Fr-W-W or d'appolito arrangement.

Driver sensitivity of the W may be the fly in the ointment, havent run any numbers as yet.

I have considered the NS3 but in unsure if theyre hifi enough to partner the A5 im likely to use as the FR component. Can anyone here help me out?
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Old 11th January 2013, 07:09 PM   #2
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You get a lot more optionsif you move to a 4" woofer. We use the Peerless 830870 with the FF85 with great results. If you have to livewith a 3" then the Aura is one of the best FR of this size in the bass, there may be some small TBs purpose built that may be better.

dave
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Old 11th January 2013, 07:36 PM   #3
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Default it was actually a discussion we had that inspired this.

A combination of my recent quick n dirty tests with the A5, and a conversation we had Re using 3 2"drivers in MTM. So I got to thinking, in my own way

Ive had the 1st gen A5 sat around for aeons and Im still a little unhappy with any design Ive come up with, so far.

Ive put an A5 in a 3" tube, and stuffed til i cut the combing acceptably. Using GEQ ive notched out the peak on the A5. Not ideal but after a few nights listening im happy. Using the 2nd order HP built in Ive set at 40hz. Next i added some EQ to try and offset the awful BSC that I need, given the driver is bunged in the end of sonotube. I should do a impedance curve...

Anyway, I have no idea where Fc is in this tube. Now I understand the A5 isnt really designed for bass but to Ive been surprised how much bass I hear, and how much bass EQ I managed to use at volumes Im happy with for TV and some films. (i said something similar recently in another thread so I shouldnt go on)

Getting off the point. Apologies. Anyway my room is small, and I sit ~2m away. My voltage input for Panos's thread some time ago revealed I probably listen at 88dB max (unless its a party).

So the next thought was an MTM or MMTMM with 3 or 5 A5s instead (assuming theyre sold still) maybe a 'double BSC' in the MMTMM with the two outer pairs (maybe really crazy)

Then I thought of the Aurasound instead. Then I thought 'no' a set of 5 panpipes with A5s in somehow seems a great idea. (maybe only to me... But this is since I think Im getting a solid 40-50 Hz out of these, then just an MTM would give me sufficient headroom, perhaps even an MTM would suffice.

So 'other' options are welcome, as with a single A5 im near Xmax at my typical levels and EQ.
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Old 11th January 2013, 07:59 PM   #4
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Quote:
A5s instead (assuming theyre sold still)
Not for a long time. New Euro laws regarding ferrofluid makes them impractical.

dave
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Old 11th January 2013, 08:04 PM   #5
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Default I also noticed your own 'tubes' only you had the good sense to use PVC pipe instead..

Ahhhhhhh!

I didn't realise they were ferrofluid drivers...........

Thanks. I'm not really aware how that effects us in the UK to be honest, OR how long the ferrofluid in a driver of this type will survive given the higher excursions.

But something cheaper would be better if its going to last. Id imagine the already high Qts (or Qes) would skyrocket once the ferrofluid dries out.

Just checked and youre right

Thanks (curses

Guess Ill have to look at what I can do with the Aura or something larger.

I should really just measure the impedance and try to work out whats happening in my room with these A5. I feel like I should know and then Id have something useful to write

Henkjans desktop TL is appealing, but the A5 isnt so good in it (I think thats correct, and I think my TB W3-1285sg would work better) It could be that I have a similar length path, and the EQ is helping things. CSA is the big difference.

I need to do testing and less typing most likely. I test all day, study at night, DIYA on the train....crazy

Cheers for the direction
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Old 11th January 2013, 08:37 PM   #6
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3in bass driver = oxymoron. HD is usually crippling; if you run them sans highpass IMO you're generally best with sealed or some form of aperiodic. Just my take on it of course, & I'm occasionally a hypocrite when the mood strikes.
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Old 11th January 2013, 08:38 PM   #7
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It is not as if the ferrofluid dries up. If you play the drivers too loud you can slowly expel some of it.

That has nothing to do with them dissappearing.

If you are going looking keep in mind that the Jordan J6T is essentially the same driver (different lead-outs). Bob at CSS might have some, i'm pretty sure has a paitr he'd free in the interest of your prokect.

But myself, i'd use something more capable. Even NS3 is a big step up... 4 of them would give ~88 dB,

dave
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Old 11th January 2013, 08:53 PM   #8
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Yes you're Both probably right!

Yes HD goes up. Its just that with the A5s I find I dont notice a major change in THD (or rather the onset) with at louder levels, nearer Xmax.

In other 3" theyre excursion is limited (i.e. the W3-1285sg).

I thought it was clean and to be totally clear, It Is within its Xmax and a tiny bit beyond, but the onset of THD is gradual and at similar excursions to the A5 (xmax is only 0.4mm) it is perceptable. annoying since Xmech must be about 4mm p-p

the down side to that is that they (W3-1285sg) probably also would like to be high passed, but certainly more that because occasionally instead of any compression, you get THD on VLF dvd audio content with just touches the peaks of audible content.

Thanks Dave, Im not looking per se, more like it was just the beer after work at the end of a week that is responsible. To be honest I didnt think I could notch the peak out of the A5 well enough and surprised myself by getting it 90% there. Now ive got around to doing it, the A5s I wasnt so keen on at first, are now defunct

To be honest at TV levels and especially on TV I like the way they sound running full range now, and with the EQ, even better.
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Old 11th January 2013, 09:32 PM   #9
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Default Audio Virus?

Well Ive literally just stumbled across these Audiovirus BPP things.

I thought the TS looked similar to the A5 so I just checked in Win ISD:

Click the image to open in full size.

xmax of 4mm.

hmmmmmm
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Old 13th January 2013, 09:44 AM   #10
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Default My Z plot of the A5 in the tube, for those who are interested.

Here is a plot of Z ive just taken with the A5 setup as previous (of course EQ is bypassed):

Click the image to open in full size.

'Reflex' double peaks appear at ~40 and ~120 Hz, with the associated dip at just under 60 Hz

The next Dip is at ~ 200 Hz
The higher Z peak appears at around 250 Hz

Dip to dip (60 & 200Hz) appears close to 3rd harmonic at 180 hz

Anyone have any comments (can you spot any glaring errors in my assumptions?)

BTW in post #8 I meant 'my reasons for being less keen on the A5 are defunct', not the driver

Thanks for reading.

Greg
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