Welll ...Lowthers despite their massive Alnico motors and myriad followers are, in real life Mediocre performers . Failing to meet owners expectations.. for Decades.
But Hey the standard excuse is: It's all because the Enclosure was not right.. My ***!
Buy a pair build several 'enclosures' and discover this for yourself.
Having said : IMO anything Less than a Lowther is just a sad joke, perpertuted on the naive by those with a Need to sell Product.
Teeny Tiny drivers are honestly described as sad... Tiny tinny sounds. Gee who woulda thought?
But hey! IF you install them in overly complex Gargantua Boxes they can start to sound like slightly larger drivers.
But hey! Fill yer boots wasting your time and $$$ discovering all this for yourselves.
But Hey the standard excuse is: It's all because the Enclosure was not right.. My ***!
Buy a pair build several 'enclosures' and discover this for yourself.
Having said : IMO anything Less than a Lowther is just a sad joke, perpertuted on the naive by those with a Need to sell Product.
Teeny Tiny drivers are honestly described as sad... Tiny tinny sounds. Gee who woulda thought?
But hey! IF you install them in overly complex Gargantua Boxes they can start to sound like slightly larger drivers.
But hey! Fill yer boots wasting your time and $$$ discovering all this for yourselves.
For me, its about driver synergy with your partnering audio system.
I have Fostex Fe208e sigmas in D58es horns with which sound great. I am running them with a T90a super tweet and 0.68uF cap first order. My amp is a type 45 tube generating 1.8 to 4W per side and a Rega Jupiter cd player or Heybrook TT2 with Micro Benz Ace cart. My room is 13 feet by 25 by 9, and it goes loud enough to have a dance party on new years eve.....
You can see that my sources could be categorised as 'warm' or 'smooth'. When partnered with the 208 horns the sound is wonderful.
However, I have tried a EL34 pentode amp, and a Sugden a21a, and a Arcam CD in all cases you would run from the room with a piercing trebble like someone shoved a pencil in your ear and turned it slowly around.
I previously had the Fe206e with a similar shrill experience. Could not wait to get rid of it and tell all and sundry it is a crap driver.
So the learning for me in my journey is to think 'system synergy' not ''individual drivers'' when contemplating the single driver speaker route...
Adam
I have Fostex Fe208e sigmas in D58es horns with which sound great. I am running them with a T90a super tweet and 0.68uF cap first order. My amp is a type 45 tube generating 1.8 to 4W per side and a Rega Jupiter cd player or Heybrook TT2 with Micro Benz Ace cart. My room is 13 feet by 25 by 9, and it goes loud enough to have a dance party on new years eve.....
You can see that my sources could be categorised as 'warm' or 'smooth'. When partnered with the 208 horns the sound is wonderful.
However, I have tried a EL34 pentode amp, and a Sugden a21a, and a Arcam CD in all cases you would run from the room with a piercing trebble like someone shoved a pencil in your ear and turned it slowly around.
I previously had the Fe206e with a similar shrill experience. Could not wait to get rid of it and tell all and sundry it is a crap driver.
So the learning for me in my journey is to think 'system synergy' not ''individual drivers'' when contemplating the single driver speaker route...
Adam
So, having used this thread to rant against Lowther (I can't say I like for their products myself, but to each their own) is there anything you do actually like?
There you go again, making it seem you are an expert on the subject based on very limited experience.
Everyone told you what was going to happen with your CHP experience, and you are surprised it came true? Quit whining please.
dave
Yup. System matching is a big part of it. And it should be kept in mind that the drivers you mention were designed to be used with high output impedance amplifiers in the first place (confirmed by the man who designed them). If you don't, or don't employ other means of providing similar conditions (some form of Eq, series R or whatever), you're unlikely to hear them at their best.
I'm not a massive fan of the 206, although it's a solid unit of its type. The 208ESigma + suitable supertweeter is one of my favourite wideband units though.
Well I can't say I blame anyone for liking 15in DC Tannoys, but comparing those to far smaller speakers of any kind is a bit like comparing a '66 GTO with a Mini: pointless.
Would these perchance be the drive units that had the misfortune to be stuffed apparently at random into a couple of undersized boxes from a Sony minisystem with zero thought given to the alignment, and were then blamed for poor LF performance? And for a lack of HF, despite the data sheet stating it was designed with a shelved down HF, which is also clearly visible in the FR plots? And which were then compared to 15in DC Tannoys? Hmm. While I don't much care for the current CHP (not run solo at least, although I suspect it'd make a decent small midbass), I don't think the finger of blame can be entirely placed upon them if their requirements are ignored, the published FR plots & information about them are ignored, and to cap it all, they are then compared to units approximately ten times their size.
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the user just need to know that any 4 inch driver will not give you chess pounding bass, not even close. The bass will be clear, but with not much impact. If you want impact, you have got to go with at least a bigger FR.
also, for my experience. the fe107en sounds much much less refined then the mark audio a12p, the fe107en is okay, but the MA is a good speaker.. I would suggest the op to take the 12p which is 6.5 inch.. Another user in here used to use the a7.2 and he switch to the a12 and report that he prefer the combination. more body in the low mid/midbass...
also, for my experience. the fe107en sounds much much less refined then the mark audio a12p, the fe107en is okay, but the MA is a good speaker.. I would suggest the op to take the 12p which is 6.5 inch.. Another user in here used to use the a7.2 and he switch to the a12 and report that he prefer the combination. more body in the low mid/midbass...
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Same can be said about relationships.
Btw, I haven't been able to listen to music on my stereo for several months. Little earbuds suffice... but they do not recreate the 'space' of the performance. Singers reside within your head rather than in front of you floating in space. Apparently, many of these earbuds use single, full range drivers.
Regardless, I miss my system and the way the music FEELS.
The best full range drivers are the one that give you goosebumps... the ones that let you relax and forget about caps and coils... the ones you can afford and the ones that make you want to listen to music. You must consider the space you will be listening as well as the rest of your gear. There is no absolute best. Sometimes I can't wait to listen to cheap Dayton's in BIBs (which totally satisfy) or expensive Fostex in elaborate back horns (which could sound magical sometimes). Experimentation with different cabinets/enclosures helps each of us find our favorites regardless of opinions.
I've built things I haven't liked but never blame the designer. Their efforts are free in most cases and their excitement is contagious which helps move this hobby along.
Zilla
Btw, I haven't been able to listen to music on my stereo for several months. Little earbuds suffice... but they do not recreate the 'space' of the performance. Singers reside within your head rather than in front of you floating in space. Apparently, many of these earbuds use single, full range drivers.
Regardless, I miss my system and the way the music FEELS.
The best full range drivers are the one that give you goosebumps... the ones that let you relax and forget about caps and coils... the ones you can afford and the ones that make you want to listen to music. You must consider the space you will be listening as well as the rest of your gear. There is no absolute best. Sometimes I can't wait to listen to cheap Dayton's in BIBs (which totally satisfy) or expensive Fostex in elaborate back horns (which could sound magical sometimes). Experimentation with different cabinets/enclosures helps each of us find our favorites regardless of opinions.
I've built things I haven't liked but never blame the designer. Their efforts are free in most cases and their excitement is contagious which helps move this hobby along.
Zilla
Since this thread has very little chance of having the original question answered with any kind of consensus, a better question, perhaps, is "What is the best bang-for-buck full range driver?"
Criteria: reasonably consistent reproduction of the full (audible) audio spectrum (when installed in a suitable enclosure) at SPL sufficient for the majority of listeners - at the lowest price point.
Criteria: reasonably consistent reproduction of the full (audible) audio spectrum (when installed in a suitable enclosure) at SPL sufficient for the majority of listeners - at the lowest price point.
Best bang for the buck? Still depends on the preferences of the banger! Not to mention how well all the little "bangettes were executed that will make the whole thing sing. Having said that, ahem, if you say, one driver only, not FAST allowed, no supertweets allowed, and heaven forbid - no response shaping crossover, then (and only then), those MA Alpair 10.2's on sale look pretty BANGING to me. But then what do I know I'm usually listening to my AN12-FAST set up or QUAD 63's.
In simple ported or sealed boxes, my experience is:
Pioneer B20, IMO is best bang for buck... but needs a super tweeter.
TB 1808 is very good in a simple sealed box but is too expensive.
TB 1320 is very good in small ported box but missing bass and a bit veiled.
Fostex 168z is very good in large ported box but also expensive.
All of the other drivers I've used require (IMO) either bass or treble support (or both) and something more elaborate than a simple sealed or ported box to sound their best and as good as the ones listed above. Once you begin to look at alternate cabinets the results completely change. That's what makes this a fun and interesting hobby.
Zilla
Pioneer B20, IMO is best bang for buck... but needs a super tweeter.
TB 1808 is very good in a simple sealed box but is too expensive.
TB 1320 is very good in small ported box but missing bass and a bit veiled.
Fostex 168z is very good in large ported box but also expensive.
All of the other drivers I've used require (IMO) either bass or treble support (or both) and something more elaborate than a simple sealed or ported box to sound their best and as good as the ones listed above. Once you begin to look at alternate cabinets the results completely change. That's what makes this a fun and interesting hobby.
Zilla
I've enjoyed JBL LE8T-H drivers and put a dozen in some really dense matrix-braced stuffed sealed assymetrical-geometry cabinets once (long stage footlight-type stage monitor or could be stood up as a line source). With lots of EQ it was impressive.
but the foam surounds make them a bad investment. I'm disgusted with the amount of money I've lost on JBL and Bose surrounds that disintegrate.
but the foam surounds make them a bad investment. I'm disgusted with the amount of money I've lost on JBL and Bose surrounds that disintegrate.
Lowthers are not fullrange drivers, but real mid-range driver with famous reputation originated from horns application.
Instead I would prefer a B200 in a 100 Litres box, or a helper woofer.
SMALL WOOFER
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