Hi all, first post.
I'm looking to build some desktop horn speakers for use with my pc. So pretty much near field listening. I have my own cnc machine so I can get pretty creative. Below is a picture of some early concepts. I would like to make something with a smaller foot print. Maybe 3.5 X 8inches and around 12 or 14 inches tall. I'm leaning towards the one with the blue arrow.
I know nothing about making calculations for optimum sound etc. I also realize I shouldn't expect the world from something that comes in such a small package but I'm going to try anyways.
Anyhow I'm looking for some creative advice. Anything would be appreciated.
Thanks, Chris
I'm looking to build some desktop horn speakers for use with my pc. So pretty much near field listening. I have my own cnc machine so I can get pretty creative. Below is a picture of some early concepts. I would like to make something with a smaller foot print. Maybe 3.5 X 8inches and around 12 or 14 inches tall. I'm leaning towards the one with the blue arrow.
I know nothing about making calculations for optimum sound etc. I also realize I shouldn't expect the world from something that comes in such a small package but I'm going to try anyways.
Anyhow I'm looking for some creative advice. Anything would be appreciated.
Thanks, Chris
There is a nice 15 in tall x 9 in deep x 4 in wide unit with see thru sides here. I have copied this in foam core and it sounds pretty good. It is made with cnc mdf panels stacked together but other ways of fabricating are possible.
Development Inside Story of See-Through Horn Speakers - TelaVox annex to TelaAudio
Development Inside Story of See-Through Horn Speakers - TelaVox annex to TelaAudio
I can't see any pictures in the original post.
OK: do you want me to be honest, or tactful?
If you want tactful, then I'll say 'go ahead, great idea.'
If you want honest, I'll ask why in the name of sanity you want a desktop sized horn? Granted, it might look pretty if you use transparent sides, but acoustically, they don't do all that well (I'm going to respectfully disagree with the above post regarding the sound of the linked box. I've heard a couple of variations of it too, & thought it was an abomination. The lower midrange was horribly coloured). The compromises inherent are too great in such small horns IMO, short of a very simple BVR. You'd be better off acoustically for a desktop speaker with a TL, sealed or reflex box. Yes, the latter two are common, but there's a reason for that: they work & tend to have more acceptable compromises. The TL option also works well, & is less common largely because it's slightly more complicated to design & build.
OK: do you want me to be honest, or tactful?
If you want tactful, then I'll say 'go ahead, great idea.'
If you want honest, I'll ask why in the name of sanity you want a desktop sized horn? Granted, it might look pretty if you use transparent sides, but acoustically, they don't do all that well (I'm going to respectfully disagree with the above post regarding the sound of the linked box. I've heard a couple of variations of it too, & thought it was an abomination. The lower midrange was horribly coloured). The compromises inherent are too great in such small horns IMO, short of a very simple BVR. You'd be better off acoustically for a desktop speaker with a TL, sealed or reflex box. Yes, the latter two are common, but there's a reason for that: they work & tend to have more acceptable compromises. The TL option also works well, & is less common largely because it's slightly more complicated to design & build.
Last edited:
Space is at a premium for me right now and I also want to get my feet wet with a horn speaker build. But no, I don't want to make something that sounds horrible either 
. Right now I have some free time on my hands. I recently got laid off which isn't a big deal since I'm was planning to move to another state this summer. Leaves me with a little project time until then.
. Right now I have some free time on my hands. I recently got laid off which isn't a big deal since I'm was planning to move to another state this summer. Leaves me with a little project time until then.
Just to be clear, I did not copy it exactly, I put quite a few sharp corners in to low pass the horn output and used more stuffing. I did not measure it but it did not sound colored to my ears. Scottmoose may have heard other variants but he certainly has not heard mine.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/223313-foam-core-board-speaker-enclosures-2.html
See post 17
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/223313-foam-core-board-speaker-enclosures-2.html
See post 17
Ye gods man, you said you'd 'copied this [linked box] in foam core', not completely changed it, which is what that amounts to. Clairvoyance was never one of my strong points.
Frankly, I can well imagine your box works better than the translam original. I'm not unknown for advocating / employing the Olson / Nagaoka style manifold expansion for back-horns myself. It's usually more effective for back-horns IMO, & in most of the boxes of this type I design, this, and the folding scheme is taken as part of the design from the outset. Nevertheless, I maintain that a desktop back-horn is fundamentally inferior to most other alignments. The main appeal is that it's different; as a general rule, performance is unlikely to match, let alone exceed, a decent example of a much simpler box. Been there, done that.
Clairvoyance was never one of my strong points. Frankly, I can well imagine your box works better than the translam original. I'm not unknown for advocating / employing the Olson / Nagaoka style manifold expansion for back-horns myself. It's usually more effective for back-horns IMO, & in most of the boxes of this type I design, this, and the folding scheme is taken as part of the design from the outset. Nevertheless, I maintain that a desktop back-horn is fundamentally inferior to most other alignments. The main appeal is that it's different; as a general rule, performance is unlikely to match, let alone exceed, a decent example of a much simpler box. Been there, done that.
Last edited:
If I may ask, how did you know where to put the sharp corners? In going with a smaller design should I look to use more sharp corners instead of curves? If my pictures ever show up they are very curvy. I've also made few other posts, not sure if the forum isn't taking my posts or if it's a thing where my posts need to be reviewed by a mod since I just joined.
Yeah, I know the feeling. Tradeoff between appearance and performance. Assuming transparent sides aren't used, so you can't see the internals anyway (always a PITA when it comes to dressing), I'd probably be inclined toward a horn loaded reflex / BVR / whatever term you favour (OK, so 99.9% of back horns can technically be described as that anyway, but you know what I mean). Looks like a long-path horn externally, but it should avoid some of the pitfalls.
Forgive me Chris -very rude of me before not to say it, so please accept this belated: Welcome to the forum! And apologies if I sound overly negative. I'd rather give my views, FWIW, up front. So I can come across as a miserable gibbon sometimes. That said, I've been there doing much the same & that's just my view. Take it or leave it as you see fit of course.
Forgive me Chris -very rude of me before not to say it, so please accept this belated: Welcome to the forum! And apologies if I sound overly negative. I'd rather give my views, FWIW, up front. So I can come across as a miserable gibbon sometimes. That said, I've been there doing much the same & that's just my view. Take it or leave it as you see fit of course.
Last edited:
No problem, Scott. I'll take honesty over false flattery any day.
Looks like I got my concept pictures up on post number 4. I'm looking for something that is both nice to look at and sounds good. Just a good all around challenge.
I don't think I want to go with transparent sides. I'd rather have an interesting exterior. Goggling BVR speakers shows a very simple setup. I may make one to compare it with whatever curvy horn I make.
xrk971, I like that sound path of yours but dunno. It's deeper than what I'd want for the desktop. I think I'll start a sketch and see what I can up with and post back.
Looks like I got my concept pictures up on post number 4. I'm looking for something that is both nice to look at and sounds good. Just a good all around challenge.
I don't think I want to go with transparent sides. I'd rather have an interesting exterior. Goggling BVR speakers shows a very simple setup. I may make one to compare it with whatever curvy horn I make.
xrk971, I like that sound path of yours but dunno. It's deeper than what I'd want for the desktop. I think I'll start a sketch and see what I can up with and post back.
Put the corners early on to filter when channel is small. Curves look cool but let HF junk thru. Some people like this color in their horns though. Maybe reminds them of mechanical gramaphone?
Your designs look very cool, the blue arrow design has a rather small mouth for how big driver is. Mouth size controls gain so bigger is better.
The cornu spiral horn is perhaps the most efficient as it has huge mouth for how small it is. I made a 'desktop' cornu at 14 in square by 2 in deep to run with 2 in drivers. Sounds great. Expansion ratio in cornu is 24 to 30, very few horns do better than 10.
"A waveguide having a gradual curve causes less turbulence and undesirable noise than waveguides with a more abrupt curve or change in direction" (Pub No.:US 2009/0214066 A1)
If the intent is to transmit waves with least disruption, then smooth of course. But if intent is to let only low freq thru, sharp turns filter at the expense of some efficiency for low frequencies. Obviously sharp turns are very inefficient for HF which is why they get attenuated into turbulence and heat. Microwave waveguides for comm are smooth and mirror polished on the inside. HM puts acoustic ceiling tile to line his horn channels on the other hand.
This is the exact sort of information I'm looking for. So when you say mouth you are referring to horns end or inlet.
Cochleus, how would you go about getting rid of HF without sharper cornors?
Between you two what I'm thinking is to have more cornors behind the speaker and then use the rest of path as smooth.
Cochleus, how would you go about getting rid of HF without sharper cornors?
Between you two what I'm thinking is to have more cornors behind the speaker and then use the rest of path as smooth.
Hi Chris,
The smallest section of horn is called the throat, and the largest section is the mouth.
Using a fiber material like "Acousta-Stuf" will absorb the highest frequencies. This material is placed at the speaker/throat end of the horn only.
With the designs in your drawing you would also get some low-pass filtering from the air volume between the speaker cone and the throat.
Check out the "foam-core" threads in Full Range forum, might be a way for you to try different designs fast and cheap to see what sounds good to your ear.
The smallest section of horn is called the throat, and the largest section is the mouth.
Using a fiber material like "Acousta-Stuf" will absorb the highest frequencies. This material is placed at the speaker/throat end of the horn only.
With the designs in your drawing you would also get some low-pass filtering from the air volume between the speaker cone and the throat.
Check out the "foam-core" threads in Full Range forum, might be a way for you to try different designs fast and cheap to see what sounds good to your ear.
Last edited:
OK, so for I've gleamed, bigger mouth, Acousta-Stuf applied to the throat, and if no Acousta-Stuf is used then have sharper corners. Should be easy to do.
Right now I'm using a pair of Logitech zcinama 2.1 desktop speakers. I'm thinking about cannibalizing them for right now until I decide upon an amp and full range speaker to go with down the road. Below is all I've found as far as specs go. If I mounted the tweeter on the outside of the horn, and used the midwoofer for the horn, could that be a worthy upgrade? My biggest complaint with this system is it just doesn't get loud enough to even watch a movie comfortably.
Right now I'm using a pair of Logitech zcinama 2.1 desktop speakers. I'm thinking about cannibalizing them for right now until I decide upon an amp and full range speaker to go with down the road. Below is all I've found as far as specs go. If I mounted the tweeter on the outside of the horn, and used the midwoofer for the horn, could that be a worthy upgrade? My biggest complaint with this system is it just doesn't get loud enough to even watch a movie comfortably.
- 110-watts RMS into 4 ohms at 45Hz Subwoofer
- 26-watts RMS x 2 into 4 ohms at 335Hz Midwoofer
- 9-watts RMS x 2 into 16 ohms at 17.4khz Tweeter
ChrisRiggle,
Being a cannibal with computer speakers is one of my favorite things to do. It's tough to get a better deal on drivers with an amp. Logitech actually uses some pretty decent components. Their bottom of the barrel S120 is used in my 14 in cornu horn and works great (the amp too). If you want to go this route, see if the mid driver will have same cutout as a full range driver you might want to upgrade to at some point. BLH's really should be paired with a full range driver. It may turn out that the mid driver is close to a full range already. Good luck.
Being a cannibal with computer speakers is one of my favorite things to do.
It's tough to get a better deal on drivers with an amp. Logitech actually uses some pretty decent components. Their bottom of the barrel S120 is used in my 14 in cornu horn and works great (the amp too). If you want to go this route, see if the mid driver will have same cutout as a full range driver you might want to upgrade to at some point. BLH's really should be paired with a full range driver. It may turn out that the mid driver is close to a full range already. Good luck.
Yep, I agree with that.
For me, sound fidelity is the important goal.Look around some more for small designs that ppl have built and sound good at the same time.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.