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Old 5th January 2013, 10:58 PM   #11
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No problem, Scott. I'll take honesty over false flattery any day.

Looks like I got my concept pictures up on post number 4. I'm looking for something that is both nice to look at and sounds good. Just a good all around challenge.

I don't think I want to go with transparent sides. I'd rather have an interesting exterior. Goggling BVR speakers shows a very simple setup. I may make one to compare it with whatever curvy horn I make.

xrk971, I like that sound path of yours but dunno. It's deeper than what I'd want for the desktop. I think I'll start a sketch and see what I can up with and post back.
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Old 5th January 2013, 11:16 PM   #12
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisRiggle View Post
If I may ask, how did you know where to put the sharp corners? In going with a smaller design should I look to use more sharp corners instead of curves? If my pictures ever show up they are very curvy. I've also made few other posts, not sure if the forum isn't taking my posts or if it's a thing where my posts need to be reviewed by a mod since I just joined.
Put the corners early on to filter when channel is small. Curves look cool but let HF junk thru. Some people like this color in their horns though. Maybe reminds them of mechanical gramaphone?
Your designs look very cool, the blue arrow design has a rather small mouth for how big driver is. Mouth size controls gain so bigger is better.
The cornu spiral horn is perhaps the most efficient as it has huge mouth for how small it is. I made a 'desktop' cornu at 14 in square by 2 in deep to run with 2 in drivers. Sounds great. Expansion ratio in cornu is 24 to 30, very few horns do better than 10.
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Old 5th January 2013, 11:20 PM   #13
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"A waveguide having a gradual curve causes less turbulence and undesirable noise than waveguides with a more abrupt curve or change in direction" (Pub No.:US 2009/0214066 A1)
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Old 5th January 2013, 11:33 PM   #14
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cochleus View Post
"A waveguide having a gradual curve causes less turbulence and undesirable noise than waveguides with a more abrupt curve or change in direction" (Pub No.:US 2009/0214066 A1)
If the intent is to transmit waves with least disruption, then smooth of course. But if intent is to let only low freq thru, sharp turns filter at the expense of some efficiency for low frequencies. Obviously sharp turns are very inefficient for HF which is why they get attenuated into turbulence and heat. Microwave waveguides for comm are smooth and mirror polished on the inside. HM puts acoustic ceiling tile to line his horn channels on the other hand.
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Old 5th January 2013, 11:37 PM   #15
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My approach would be to deal with HF in some other way and not introduce noise into the system.

Also, the "simpler is better" approach is the one I take regarding sound paths, less things to go wrong.
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Old 6th January 2013, 01:56 AM   #16
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This is the exact sort of information I'm looking for. So when you say mouth you are referring to horns end or inlet.

Cochleus, how would you go about getting rid of HF without sharper cornors?


Between you two what I'm thinking is to have more cornors behind the speaker and then use the rest of path as smooth.
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Old 6th January 2013, 04:13 AM   #17
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Hi Chris,

The smallest section of horn is called the throat, and the largest section is the mouth.

Using a fiber material like "Acousta-Stuf" will absorb the highest frequencies. This material is placed at the speaker/throat end of the horn only.

With the designs in your drawing you would also get some low-pass filtering from the air volume between the speaker cone and the throat.

Check out the "foam-core" threads in Full Range forum, might be a way for you to try different designs fast and cheap to see what sounds good to your ear.
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Old 6th January 2013, 06:07 AM   #18
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OK, so for I've gleamed, bigger mouth, Acousta-Stuf applied to the throat, and if no Acousta-Stuf is used then have sharper corners. Should be easy to do.

Right now I'm using a pair of Logitech zcinama 2.1 desktop speakers. I'm thinking about cannibalizing them for right now until I decide upon an amp and full range speaker to go with down the road. Below is all I've found as far as specs go. If I mounted the tweeter on the outside of the horn, and used the midwoofer for the horn, could that be a worthy upgrade? My biggest complaint with this system is it just doesn't get loud enough to even watch a movie comfortably.

  • 110-watts RMS into 4 ohms at 45Hz Subwoofer
  • 26-watts RMS x 2 into 4 ohms at 335Hz Midwoofer
  • 9-watts RMS x 2 into 16 ohms at 17.4khz Tweeter
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Old 6th January 2013, 09:28 AM   #19
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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ChrisRiggle,
Being a cannibal with computer speakers is one of my favorite things to do. It's tough to get a better deal on drivers with an amp. Logitech actually uses some pretty decent components. Their bottom of the barrel S120 is used in my 14 in cornu horn and works great (the amp too). If you want to go this route, see if the mid driver will have same cutout as a full range driver you might want to upgrade to at some point. BLH's really should be paired with a full range driver. It may turn out that the mid driver is close to a full range already. Good luck.
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Old 6th January 2013, 12:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scottmoose View Post
Nevertheless, I maintain that a desktop back-horn is fundamentally inferior to most other alignments. The main appeal is that it's different; as a general rule, performance is unlikely to match, let alone exceed, a decent example of a much simpler box. Been there, done that.
Yep, I agree with that. For me, sound fidelity is the important goal.

Look around some more for small designs that ppl have built and sound good at the same time.
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