1+ years with chr70 pensils whats next?

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It's been more than a year with my CHR70 pensils and I absolutely adore them.

How ever, some time ago one of my neighbors dumped an old pair of celestion impact 40 on me and yesterday I did a little A-B comparison with my pensils.

The celestions are a huge old pair with pealed veneer and MDF bits all over, but they still hold their ground.

I now realize that there is a lot missing in my CHR70 pensils, they are really charming and pleasant but the celestions just had some much more clarity, detail and body to the music.

So my dear friends, I got the Itch for more and I appreciate your suggestions for what's next?

I have a small apartment, gainclone with 6418(sub-mini) tube preamp. I'm going to build the amp camp amp soon as well.
So whats a good reasonably priced project that will make the hair on my neck stand?
 
It's been more than a year with my CHR70 pensils and I absolutely adore them.

How ever, some time ago one of my neighbors dumped an old pair of celestion impact 40 on me and yesterday I did a little A-B comparison with my pensils.

The celestions are a huge old pair with pealed veneer and MDF bits all over, but they still hold their ground.

I now realize that there is a lot missing in my CHR70 pensils, they are really charming and pleasant but the celestions just had some much more clarity, detail and body to the music.

So my dear friends, I got the Itch for more and I appreciate your suggestions for what's next?

I have a small apartment, gainclone with 6418(sub-mini) tube preamp. I'm going to build the amp camp amp soon as well.
So whats a good reasonably priced project that will make the hair on my neck stand?

Alpair 10.2 in MLTL, Pensil or Silbury? From what I've heard of Maeshowe / Valiant and Victor, the third of this group would be most likely to erect your follicles, but might be a bit of a squeeze in a small apartment - but then again, maybe not.
 
"the third of this group would be most likely to erect your follicles"

Thanks Chris, looking at the picture here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/176719-alpair-10-more-forgiving-than-alpair-7-12-a.html , some follicles are already up.
I think I will need to give up a few book shelves to fit this in my apartment.

I'm open to more suggestions, is there anything aside of MA drivers with a good bang for buck? maybe multi-way is the way to go?

You should anticipate lots of advice on the last point - I'm personally a big fan of both the Fostex and Mark Audio lines, as well as the class of 2-ways that are referred to as FAST - which can be as simple as a widebander such as the CHR70, or Fostex FF85WK, supported by any number and flavor of woofers, but generally with XO points much lower than a classic 2-way ( ie in the 200-350Hz range)
 
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I'm personally a big fan of both the Fostex and Mark Audio lines, as well as the class of 2-ways that are referred to as FAST - which can be as simple as a widebander such as the CHR70, or Fostex FF85WK, supported by any number and flavor of woofers, but generally with XO points much lower than a classic 2-way ( ie in the 200-350Hz range)

Has anyone attempted to crossover even lower than this? I love what my microTowers can do all the way down into the 70s or 80s (even the 60s once broken in :) ), so that's where I bring my sub in just to richen things up (and I don't necessarily always use the sub, either - depends on what I am listening to). I am just curious if anyone has used the EL70 in a FAST setup with a very low crossover of <100hz and whether or not that might or might not work. If anything, it might work well to persuade the multi-way folks that FAST really is something quite different than a 2-way :)

Also, does a FAST always imply/require that the two drivers be in the same cabinet, or can/should they be isolated?
 
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Cogitech,

I've played with the Alp 7.3 crossing down at 110Hz - works pretty well. The Alp 7.3 were in P10 Mar-Ken boxes accompanied by TB W6-1139 sub woofers in seprate cabs.

EL-70 should work a bit lower I guess. But on the other hand, if you have quality woofers (not sub-woofers like my experiment), you might want to cross a bit higher to get the benefits of greater cone acreage, better dynamics and bottom end of the woofers.

For a single monolithic speaker I made the cabs but never got installing the drivers in this design by Scottmoose and Dave (post #97 of below thread):

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/css/176790-el166-mtm-ml-tl-10.html

The EL166 drivers are no longer available - maybe Dave can suggest substitutes if you intend to follow through with the design.
 
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Cogitech,

I've played with the Alp 7.3 crossing down at 110Hz - works pretty well. The Alp 7.3 were in P10 Mar-Ken boxes accompanied by TB W6-1139 sub woofers in seprate cabs.

EL-70 should work a bit lower I guess. But on the other hand, if you have quality woofers (not sub-woofers like my experiment), you might want to cross a bit higher to get the benefits of greater cone acreage, better dynamics and bottom end of the woofers.

For a single monolithic speaker I made the cabs but never got installing the drivers in this design by Scottmoose and Dave (post #97 of below thread):

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/css/176790-el166-mtm-ml-tl-10.html

The EL166 drivers are no longer available - maybe Dave can suggest substitutes if you intend to follow through with the design.

That's terrible that the drivers disappeared before you got a chance to finish your build! (note to self: buy the drivers first).

Any time I start looking at (almost) multi-way, I start reading about crossovers and then quickly decide FR is my cup of tea. The only crossover in my system now is the one on my sub which has a knob you can turn. That's about as much as I want to know about crossovers, to be honest :D

I am probably better off sticking with FR + sub. I just like the idea of FAST, and I bet I would love the sound.
 
The Alpair 10.2s are on sale at Madisound; $80 each instead of $110. I ordered a pair Saturday and am trying to decide on the cabinet now.
Mike

very tempting!

I'm personally a big fan of both the Fostex and Mark Audio lines, as well as the class of 2-ways that are referred to as FAST - which can be as simple as a widebander such as the CHR70, or Fostex FF85WK, supported by any number and flavor of woofers, but generally with XO points much lower than a classic 2-way ( ie in the 200-350Hz range)

Sounds like a good option, maybe I just need to modify my pensils.
just wondering if anyone has tried putting a woofer/xo into pensils before.. does it make sense?
 
That's terrible that the drivers disappeared before you got a chance to finish your build! (note to self: buy the drivers first).

Thanks for your concern, but I do have the drivers; just stalled on that particular build. Need to finish up.

I am probably better off sticking with FR + sub. I just like the idea of FAST, and I bet I would love the sound.

FR+sub is plenty good. :)
 
very tempting!



Sounds like a good option, maybe I just need to modify my pensils.
just wondering if anyone has tried putting a woofer/xo into pensils before.. does it make sense?


I'd avoid adding woofers into a Pensil enclosure - if you're concerned or certain that you'll need such support, I'd either choose a different enclosure design with accommodating void cavities, or go for separate woofers. The latter requires more space, but has many advantages
 
What is your budget like?

but the celestions just had some much more clarity, detail and body to the music.

Depending on your listening level, this may be a result of the full ranger being over stressed and the multi-way holding up better.

I have a small apartment, gainclone with 6418(sub-mini) tube preamp. I'm going to build the amp camp amp soon as well.

Again, depending on your listening level, the higher sensitivity of the Celestion may be helping here.

So whats a good reasonably priced project that will make the hair on my neck stand?

I agree with others here that you should consider a FAST or subwoofers. Which brings me back to my first question. If you budget is tight, build some subwoofers. Two minimum. Maybe 4 10"ers dual opposed in two cabs flanking your pencils. That would be nice. Once you can expand your budget, ditch the CHR70s and get Alp7 or similar better full range driver. Cross around 100hz.

If the budget is larger, put the pencils in the bedroom or something and do something like this: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-alpair-7-3-seas-l26roy-hypex-as2-100-a.html

You wouldn't have to build it with that shape, and you could ditch the hypex amps for something more affordable. Or even a passive cross over.

Or.... If you're open to it, a proper waveguide 2-way plus subs! Hello!!!
 
Thanks tuxedocivic,

My listening level is usually quite low, but during the A-B i did push it up enough to fill up the room.
The pensils were somewhat direct, and the celestions gave an impression that sound was all around, bouncing off the rest of the room. maybe that's another quality that's missing.

Actually, yesterday I read a lot of information about waveguides.. I never heard one before so its a bit hard to know if its what I am looking for.
But I feel very curious to look more into it. I noticed there are a few variations like the econowaves, geddes ...
Anybody has a good 2-way waveguide links that would be great, I'll keep on digging in the forum.

I'd avoid adding woofers into a Pensil enclosure - if you're concerned or certain that you'll need such support, I'd either choose a different enclosure design with accommodating void cavities, or go for separate woofers. The latter requires more space, but has many advantages

Thanks Chrisb, I guess its not an option to stick them in :)
 
Thanks tuxedocivic,

My listening level is usually quite low, but during the A-B i did push it up enough to fill up the room.
The pensils were somewhat direct, and the celestions gave an impression that sound was all around, bouncing off the rest of the room. maybe that's another quality that's missing.

Actually, yesterday I read a lot of information about waveguides.. I never heard one before so its a bit hard to know if its what I am looking for.
But I feel very curious to look more into it. I noticed there are a few variations like the econowaves, geddes ...
Anybody has a good 2-way waveguide links that would be great, I'll keep on digging in the forum.



Thanks Chrisb, I guess its not an option to stick them in :)


If you're looking for "a bit more" SPL/Bass/room filling soundstage, etc with the smaller Mark Audio drivers, I can highly recommend the dual driver Castle Micro Towers. My own are with EL70s, which in any of quite a few enclosures I've heard them rather handily out-muscle the CHR70 in the bass department - but if you're contemplating adding woofers, a HP filter on the wide-banders is always a good idea, and can mitigate the issues with excursion related artifacts at higher volume levels.


As for 2-way systems with waveguides, I don't think it would be hard to find recent such projects in these forums
 
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