Price is not a problem actually
Have you experienced both the w3-1878 and the w3-315e ??
By the way frequency graphs only tell 1/8 of the whole story.
The W3-1878 has great Qts, better construction materials, good BL etc
You should looking into the Newer Fostex FF 85wk 3 inch fullrange drivers. Nothing that I have heard can touch them at any price point! CR
Some would argue that distortion, phase, impedance, and amplitude (vs frequency) measurements is what counts. At least for a designer. But ultimately it has to sound good yes, however the ear can't provide an absolute reference nor can it point you in the right direction when optimizing.
I've spent far too much time tuning systems via trial and error. It started making me crazy so now I measure.
-Matt
I've spent far too much time tuning systems via trial and error. It started making me crazy so now I measure.
-Matt
Hi Matt, unfortunately the measurements don't tell 100% of the story. For example a speaker might produce certain frequencies while doing frequency sweeping but when playing all the frequencies at the same time, some frequencies might disappear due to I don't really know what.
I tried it in the studio, testing a small 2" speaker with no enclosure. I soloed a small high frequency band which targeted a nasty sibilance and the sibilance could clearly be heard.... but when the whole song was playing altogether, the speaker could not produce the sibilance.
This is why I think that specs can tell the story to some extent but finally amp, DAC, speaker designers have to ultimately use expert ears to fine tune their products.
This could be reason why a resonance may not show up with pink or white noise.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/226192-intermodulation-distortion-doppler-distortion.html
The offending bandwidth could be hidden with phase distortion.
But 1 driver will not be better than another in this regard by a listening test. all full rangers with suffer from IMD when trying to cover too much bandwidth.
As far as choosing a driver, if the HD profile is clean and the driver breakup
is tame or high enough not to notice (above about 12 kHz) then it's a good choice.
I wish Mark K. did a HD measurement of the TB driver....it would tell us a lot more.
I found the measurements of this site (I'm not sure whether they will need you to something)
Have a nice day
RK
Attachments
Indeed! I am looking to use the W3-1878 driver with no tweeter, how would this go directly on axis? I've been modelling it in a small sealed enclosure ~0.75 litres and the results seem OK. No option of using a tweeter, I am looking for a dedicated wideband which can play down to 300hz - 500hz and up to 20khz without the need of a tweeter.
I have considered the W3-315E which is also a good option, but the sensitivity is lower and the xmax is much smaller, which I think could be bad for my situation.
Thanks.
Hi,
I just finished my TABAQ pair with this driver this weekend. And so far I'm amazed! They sound really nice with a lot of different music. Some things, like Led Zeppelin sound a bit harsh and thin. But I still haven't had enough time to experiment with placement, electronics etc.
They play music in a quite "laidback" way, which also makes them very relaxing and nice to listen to. Placed close to the wall in a small room (6-7m2) like in the attached picture, the bass is amazing and perspective quite nice. They also play more than loud enough for normal listening (IMO).
In the middle of a larger room (15-20m2), the bass is a bit lacking for some types of music, but then the perspective and realism becomes really amazing. Close to the wall in this room also works nicely with moderate sound levels, and the perspective is nice even with as much as 3m between them.
I run them fullrange without any tweeters, using only the baffle-step filter
as suggested in the tabaq design document.
If there is any interest in more details, please ask!
I just finished my TABAQ pair with this driver this weekend. And so far I'm amazed! They sound really nice with a lot of different music. Some things, like Led Zeppelin sound a bit harsh and thin. But I still haven't had enough time to experiment with placement, electronics etc.
They play music in a quite "laidback" way, which also makes them very relaxing and nice to listen to. Placed close to the wall in a small room (6-7m2) like in the attached picture, the bass is amazing and perspective quite nice. They also play more than loud enough for normal listening (IMO).
In the middle of a larger room (15-20m2), the bass is a bit lacking for some types of music, but then the perspective and realism becomes really amazing. Close to the wall in this room also works nicely with moderate sound levels, and the perspective is nice even with as much as 3m between them.
I run them fullrange without any tweeters, using only the baffle-step filter
as suggested in the tabaq design document.
If there is any interest in more details, please ask!
Attachments
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Good job mate!!
Could you please tell me about the sound of the mids and highs ... and if you honestly need a tweeter to hear the details around 10 KHz and more? Is everything present, clear fast and detailed up there ?
How low did you get toll now ?
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Good job mate!!
Could you please tell me about the sound of the mids and highs ... and if you honestly need a tweeter to hear the details around 10 KHz and more? Is everything present, clear fast and detailed up there ?
Thanks!
The mids are really nice, I think. Especially when placed 1-1.5 meters from walls, you really hear the details (as with most speakers, they sound better with some air around them.
I haven't measured either them, or my hearing, but I didn't miss any detail up high either. Of course they need to be placed directly towards you because the treble is quite directive, which means I have placed them facing directly towards the listening position and also tilted a bit upwards.
My main speakers have scanspeak 9500 softdomes, which of course are softer and more detailed, but then again the price is a bit different... And so far I would say I'd rather have the highs of the 1878 than a cheap or badly integrated tweeter.
And if I feel the need to complicate things, I think I'd make a subwoofer rather than adding a tweeter
How low did you get toll now ?
I'm sorry, I didn't understand this question?
Thanks!
The mids are really nice, I think. Especially when placed 1-1.5 meters from walls, you really hear the details (as with most speakers, they sound better with some air around them.
I haven't measured either them, or my hearing, but I didn't miss any detail up high either. Of course they need to be placed directly towards you because the treble is quite directive, which means I have placed them facing directly towards the listening position and also tilted a bit upwards.
My main speakers have scanspeak 9500 softdomes, which of course are softer and more detailed, but then again the price is a bit different... And so far I would say I'd rather have the highs of the 1878 than a cheap or badly integrated tweeter.
And if I feel the need to complicate things, I think I'd make a subwoofer rather than adding a tweeter
I'm sorry, I didn't understand this question?
thank you for your patience and explanations
Is it way worse than the scanspeak ? how much % would you rate it ? Sorry I made a typoe, I mean, how low does the system go ?
thank you for your patience and explanations
Sorry I made a typoe, I mean, how low does the system go ?
I'm not sure I would say "worse", but rather different and difficult to compare directly. Maybe not as detailed, but I'm not really sure about that either. I didn't have time to A/B listen, but maybe I will before the weekend.
I also haven't had time for measurement. I'm quite amazed on how low bass you can hear. You get all low-end information in most music. But of course you can't feel it, and you must keep in mind the drivers are the size of large headphones
Very good feedback here
I am planning to use the W3-1878 in small sealed enclosures on the dashboard of my car. I am hoping I will not miss having a tweeter, I hope these will provide all of the high end detail. They will be mounted directly on axis to the driver, and being in a car there are a lot of reflective surfaces to worry about, so reflections are difficult to deal with.
How low are you playing these?
Thanks!
I am planning to use the W3-1878 in small sealed enclosures on the dashboard of my car. I am hoping I will not miss having a tweeter, I hope these will provide all of the high end detail. They will be mounted directly on axis to the driver, and being in a car there are a lot of reflective surfaces to worry about, so reflections are difficult to deal with.
How low are you playing these?
Thanks!
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