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Old 17th December 2012, 09:15 PM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techbiker View Post
Are the pro break-in people concluding that suspension and surround wear is always a good thing?
Not on all drivers. But a competent designer knows how & how much it happens and designs for that. Ref my previous comment about spider designer specifying up to 1500 hrs for his spiders to break in before it meets its target parameters.

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Old 17th December 2012, 09:19 PM   #102
SY is offline SY  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kindhornman View Post
Sy,
I think that what you are looking at is a change in compliance of the suspension and not a change in impedance.
Can't have one without the other- if the compliance changes, so will the impedance curve. A complex impedance curve will also show up a raft of other effects, including changes in the surround which will not be reflected in the resonance frequency and Q, changes in speed and dispersion of sound in the cone, changes in basket stiffness, changes in the adhesives, settling of ferrofluid... It's an extremely versatile and informative measurement.
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Old 17th December 2012, 09:19 PM   #103
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Techbiker,
I didn't say that the sound of a broken in suspension is necessarily better than a speaker when originally assembled. But it will change and that is not a question in my mind. The physical parameters shift over time and that should not be a question. Perhaps in a mid-range driver you wouldn't want any extra low frequency response as it could muddy the sound but I have never seen anyone complain because a bass speaker got to a lower fs cutoff point...

Your analogy of a motor or engine wearing out would be a very different process than what we are talking about here. We don't have any bearings to wear out or surfaces to rub against each other. That is the point of making sure a speaker does not buzz or rub in the gap. You have two moving membranes in the surround and the spider. They do not necessarily wear out like the engine in your car or bike. It is more like looking at the back of a mid 60's Mustang and how they will look like the trunk is full of moonshine or something. The rear springs go soft and the car sits down. In a speaker the cone will retain its neutral position unless you are using it mounted vertically instead of horizontally. Then you can worry in a down-firing speaker, as the spider gets soft the weight of the cone will cause the voicecoil position to change and this is not good. The voicecoil will no longer be centered in the middle of the magnetic gap, you will have trouble with a loss of excursion as this happens.
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Old 17th December 2012, 09:20 PM   #104
JMFahey is offline JMFahey  Argentina
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@ XRK : thanks.
Knowing what I'm messing with, I was always very careful to take care of their hearing.
They have learnt the lesson so well (get out of the room when Dad tests something), that they also carry out with them my Daughter's Guinea Pig which sometimes "visits" me.
I always let masochistic Musicians alone while testing at high volume, using the time for a well deserved cup of Coffee or Tea.

Back to Acoustics, never used FLAC or other modern Codecs, but will try them.
I have a little ZOOM recorder which has helped me many times, always record "Raw" of course, will experiment a little.

As of Break-in, we are talking about something made of paper, after all.
Ok, also impregnated cloth, another fiber based material.
All I can say now is: compare a new, just opened book (or magazine) to an already read one.
Just one reading and you can already notice a difference.
And a much loved and reread many times book?
Set it standing on its edge and it will open on your favorite pages, all by itself

Same thing happens to speaker paper and treated cloth fibers, they somewhat "unattach" from each other, the structure becomes measurably less rigid, damping increases and Q lowers.
Mass and such do not change, of course.
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Old 18th December 2012, 12:01 AM   #105
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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JMFahey,
I use the Zoom too. Works great and even has raw mode as you mentioned: 24 bit @ 96 khz sampling. The files get huge fast and would have to be dropped in a server with link rather than posting directly. But honestly, if the sound difference is too small to be picked up with mp3, it probably belongs in the realm of the 33rd FFT coefficient (indiscernable limits) with regards to human hearing. I like your analogy with paper books which utilize paper, thread, cloth, and glue for construction - same materials as speaker driver suspensions.

Last edited by xrk971; 18th December 2012 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 18th December 2012, 12:39 AM   #106
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Everyone wants to talk about it, no one wants to do anything about it. Like a recording, a measurement, a blind listening test, etc.

What's the point? Just so much hot air?
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Old 18th December 2012, 12:49 AM   #107
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Old 18th December 2012, 01:05 AM   #108
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Pano,
I have some of my own loudspeakers that I built up. I also have some that have many hours on them and are definitely broken in to say the least. I will have to set up my test equipment and test the T/S measurements and see what I can prove. Would you be satisfied as these are not commercially available devices?
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Old 18th December 2012, 01:11 AM   #109
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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As long as it's a fair test, why not? I've measured T/S parameter changes with break-in, and could do so again (I think). I've never measured acoustic differences, tho. That would be harder to get really identical recording conditions. Certainly worth a try, tho.
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Old 18th December 2012, 01:25 AM   #110
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Default For Example

Just digging thru some old files I found this. An 18" P.Audio woofer new, and after a 12 hour break in and cool down. Doesn't prove much, but does show a change in Fs and impedance peak.

I'm sure other folks here can find as good or better.
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File Type: png 18inch_PAudio.png (14.6 KB, 69 views)
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