I have tried several different amps with my EL70 towers including Rega Brio 3, Quad 303, Quad 405, and my KT88 Tubelab SSE. I think the EL70 towers sound good with all the amps I have tried, however I think the best is the Tubelab SSE as the music seems to have more depth. I'm guessing that the SSE is putting out about 10-12W and in my 20' x 14' living room with a vaulted ceiling it has no problem playing louder than I would want.
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OK, I am now questioning my SPL measurements on the Adele stuff. I had a roaring fire going at the same time, burning some poplar, and there were lots of very loud "fireworks" -- pops and crackles which probably jolted the max SPL readings out of whack.
Either way, with more than female vocal and guitar that amount of power became uncomfortable.
Perhaps B283 distortion. Perhaps Yamaha clipping (but I don't think so, as I have driven other speakers louder without clipping). Either way, it was truly the "extreme" of what I might push through my EL70s (everyone has too much to drink sometimes).
"Loud" listening for me is, on average, 80dB peaks at 12 feet (keep in mind it is 4 EL70 drivers at 12 feet). This accounts for about 25% of my listening. The "extreme" case above is very rare. The rest of the time the family is around and SPL is quite low.
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I don't think so. It doesn't sound like clipping to me. It sounds like over-driven drivers.
On female vocals, they can handle the power, but with more complex stuff they start to fall apart. This is very aggressive volume, however, and not something I would do often. Probably something I should avoid completely, in fact, with these drivers.
Well, I am listening to the Lepai LP-2020A+ with the EL70s.
What I have learned is:
1) It is a fine amp for light music/TV in the bedroom, otherwise it is a piece of sh!t
2) It is easy to push it to clipping before I am satisfied
3) Anyone who claims the Lepai can offer an "audiophile" grade audio experience is sadly suffering from insanity or extreme hearing loss.
My (perhaps laughable) Yamaha is 1000% better than the Lepai. Seriously. All the life, soundstage, "reality" has disappeared. I feel like I am listening to a stereo system. I am not accustomed to this.
I am convinced a small tube amp will sound fantastic, but will it clip as quickly as the Lepai?
What I have learned is:
1) It is a fine amp for light music/TV in the bedroom, otherwise it is a piece of sh!t
2) It is easy to push it to clipping before I am satisfied
3) Anyone who claims the Lepai can offer an "audiophile" grade audio experience is sadly suffering from insanity or extreme hearing loss.
My (perhaps laughable) Yamaha is 1000% better than the Lepai. Seriously. All the life, soundstage, "reality" has disappeared. I feel like I am listening to a stereo system. I am not accustomed to this.
I am convinced a small tube amp will sound fantastic, but will it clip as quickly as the Lepai?
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Thanks for your feedback! I will consider the Tubelab.
EDIT: Sh!t. No way I can build an amp...
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Dude, if chrisb can build a tube amp that doesn't blow up (immediately), then probably anyone can - just take your time, read the instructions, and keep one hand in your pocket when voltage testing.
As much as I love both the EL70s, and several SE amps I've owned over the years ( each in a honorable way of course), I think these drivers really shine with a PP pentode or triode tube amp - needn't be of huge wattage. And I'd not be quite so uncharitable in regards to all T-class amps, but granted the Lepai is not the most refined.
I'm really starting to backstep on this whole idea.
I'm sitting here listening to Eagles - Desperado for the first time on this system (don't know why it has been so long...) and it is like I am hearing the album for the first time. When I close my eyes during Saturday Night and Bitter Creek I am transported to a very large barn; the imaging is just insane. These are tracks that I have only passively listened to in the past.
This happens all the time with my current setup. I listen to something that I tired of years ago and it is like I am listening to it for the first time. It feels like I am in the studio or hall, or barn with the band, or they are in my living room... depends...
I truly wish some of you more experienced listeners could hear my system as it is. It is hard to imagine it sounding better. Naive, I am sure, but why mess with something that's not broken?
If I am really critical, the low end could stand an upgrade. I am filling it in with a fairly low-end HT sub. Granted, I have the ports stuffed with socks and I have the crossover tuned for a perfect blend with the microTowers (I let the microTowers do as much of the bass as is reasonable and then just "rich up" the bass with the sub. It is more musical this way than trying to offload all the bass to the sub.
The experience last night with the Lepai made me really question things a lot. I see all kinds of people raving about the sound quality of it. In my bedroom system it is fine. I really enjoy it in there, to be honest. But when directly compared to the Yamaha in my main system... well, night and day. It shocked me.
I am convinced I don't want to buy "just some cheap Chinese tube amp". I am also convinced I cannot build an amp. Looks like I will be saving up some real money and investing in something that won't disappoint me. I just wish I could try a decent tube amp in the meantime... to provide some motivation to save $$$
Hell, who knows, maybe I'm a SS guy? I think not, though, as I much prefer my system with the B283 than without it.
... Moody Blues - A Question of Balance, 24-bit, 88.2khz ... eerie.
I'm sitting here listening to Eagles - Desperado for the first time on this system (don't know why it has been so long...) and it is like I am hearing the album for the first time. When I close my eyes during Saturday Night and Bitter Creek I am transported to a very large barn; the imaging is just insane. These are tracks that I have only passively listened to in the past.
This happens all the time with my current setup. I listen to something that I tired of years ago and it is like I am listening to it for the first time. It feels like I am in the studio or hall, or barn with the band, or they are in my living room... depends...
I truly wish some of you more experienced listeners could hear my system as it is. It is hard to imagine it sounding better. Naive, I am sure, but why mess with something that's not broken?
If I am really critical, the low end could stand an upgrade. I am filling it in with a fairly low-end HT sub. Granted, I have the ports stuffed with socks and I have the crossover tuned for a perfect blend with the microTowers (I let the microTowers do as much of the bass as is reasonable and then just "rich up" the bass with the sub. It is more musical this way than trying to offload all the bass to the sub.
The experience last night with the Lepai made me really question things a lot. I see all kinds of people raving about the sound quality of it. In my bedroom system it is fine. I really enjoy it in there, to be honest. But when directly compared to the Yamaha in my main system... well, night and day. It shocked me.
I am convinced I don't want to buy "just some cheap Chinese tube amp". I am also convinced I cannot build an amp. Looks like I will be saving up some real money and investing in something that won't disappoint me. I just wish I could try a decent tube amp in the meantime... to provide some motivation to save $$$
Hell, who knows, maybe I'm a SS guy? I think not, though, as I much prefer my system with the B283 than without it.
... Moody Blues - A Question of Balance, 24-bit, 88.2khz ... eerie.
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Someone is selling Georges Tubelab Simple PP EL84 stereo tube amp PCB and chassis on the bay, just search Tubelab. Just add a power transformer, set of output transformers and a set of tubes.
At work I power a set of bookshelf EL-70's with a Magnavox 8601 SE EL84 amp which sounds good, we keep the volume about 3 or 4 most of the time or 6 to 7 when the boss is gone
! The amp was free at the re-sale store because the console was left out in the rain and the driver still picked it up. It was being saved for the junk man until I seen it.An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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"The Enigma that is Tubes"
The entry fee just to try it is a) more money than you can afford to "try" something, or B) become an electrical engineer and build your own.
Even the DIY sites are cryptic and impossible to navigate. They all seem to begin with the assumption that you are a rocket surgeon. Nothing as simple as "order this complete kit and solder the sh!t together". The "tube boys" aught to take a chapter or 2 out of the books of the good folks here in the Full Range forum.
No, I'm not a brain scientist either.
The entry fee just to try it is a) more money than you can afford to "try" something, or B) become an electrical engineer and build your own.
Even the DIY sites are cryptic and impossible to navigate. They all seem to begin with the assumption that you are a rocket surgeon. Nothing as simple as "order this complete kit and solder the sh!t together". The "tube boys" aught to take a chapter or 2 out of the books of the good folks here in the Full Range forum.
No, I'm not a brain scientist either.
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Cogitech,
Tubelab (George Anderson's) site tries to make it easy on the newbie with step by step instructions and pictures. For the Tubelab PP he sells kits with the parts required. True you need to order the OPTs and figure out the chassis.
Read at 6moons that the Elekit and Triode corp kits are pretty decent and easy to put together.
Tubelab (George Anderson's) site tries to make it easy on the newbie with step by step instructions and pictures. For the Tubelab PP he sells kits with the parts required. True you need to order the OPTs and figure out the chassis.
Read at 6moons that the Elekit and Triode corp kits are pretty decent and easy to put together.
MP-301 Mk2
Cogitech,
Just wanted to weigh in on the MP-301, since you mentioned it in an earlier post. I have the MK2 version, paired with my Frugel-Horn Mk3s, and it sounds fantastic (to me). It's my first foray into tubes, and I was able to get it for $200 shipped off one of the forums. It's running the stock 6L6/5998 complement of tubes, but I plan to try some EL34 tubes soon. I'm using it in a 12'x17' listening room, with my listening position about 6'-8' from the speakers (depending on my mood ... 8' is sitting on the couch and 6' is sitting on the floor in front of the couch - quite a difference in soundstage) and my system gets plenty loud for me (no SPL meter, though, so I haven't tested it). Overall I'm very happy with the amp, especially given the price. My next one will probably be hand built once I get up the balls to actually tackle that project (probably one of the Bottlehead amps).
Tom
Cogitech,
Just wanted to weigh in on the MP-301, since you mentioned it in an earlier post. I have the MK2 version, paired with my Frugel-Horn Mk3s, and it sounds fantastic (to me). It's my first foray into tubes, and I was able to get it for $200 shipped off one of the forums. It's running the stock 6L6/5998 complement of tubes, but I plan to try some EL34 tubes soon. I'm using it in a 12'x17' listening room, with my listening position about 6'-8' from the speakers (depending on my mood ... 8' is sitting on the couch and 6' is sitting on the floor in front of the couch - quite a difference in soundstage) and my system gets plenty loud for me (no SPL meter, though, so I haven't tested it). Overall I'm very happy with the amp, especially given the price. My next one will probably be hand built once I get up the balls to actually tackle that project (probably one of the Bottlehead amps).
Tom
Thanks.
However, "Ships to: United States" (which is why I did not find it on ebay.ca)
Yes, I visited his site for quite some time. I got the distinct impression that he is trying to make it easy for newbies (and I wish him the best with that), but I left the site more confused and overwhelmed than when I got there.
His "YOU WILL DIE!" messages were the straw that broke the camel's back.
His "YOU WILL DIE!" messages were the straw that broke the camel's back.
Thanks for the response. This is quite helpful. If I could find a deal like that I would probably jump on it.
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