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Old 30th November 2012, 04:01 AM   #21
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I have tried several different amps with my EL70 towers including Rega Brio 3, Quad 303, Quad 405, and my KT88 Tubelab SSE. I think the EL70 towers sound good with all the amps I have tried, however I think the best is the Tubelab SSE as the music seems to have more depth. I'm guessing that the SSE is putting out about 10-12W and in my 20' x 14' living room with a vaulted ceiling it has no problem playing louder than I would want.
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Old 30th November 2012, 04:29 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by vinylkid58 View Post
Not a chance at that distance. At those levels, your Yamaha is probably getting close to it's rated output.



At that level, a small amp would be fine. You'd only need a couple of watts. Bump that up to 90dB, and you'll need 16 watts to produce that peak. Every 3dB increase, you'll need to double the power.

It sounds like your B283 buffer is adding a lot of distortion.

jeff
OK, I am now questioning my SPL measurements on the Adele stuff. I had a roaring fire going at the same time, burning some poplar, and there were lots of very loud "fireworks" -- pops and crackles which probably jolted the max SPL readings out of whack.

Either way, with more than female vocal and guitar that amount of power became uncomfortable.

Perhaps B283 distortion. Perhaps Yamaha clipping (but I don't think so, as I have driven other speakers louder without clipping). Either way, it was truly the "extreme" of what I might push through my EL70s (everyone has too much to drink sometimes).

"Loud" listening for me is, on average, 80dB peaks at 12 feet (keep in mind it is 4 EL70 drivers at 12 feet). This accounts for about 25% of my listening. The "extreme" case above is very rare. The rest of the time the family is around and SPL is quite low.

Last edited by cogitech; 30th November 2012 at 04:35 AM.
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Old 30th November 2012, 04:34 AM   #23
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A quick back of the hand calc, and giving some benefit to the doubt to room gain, the Yamaha is clipping at those levels.

dave
I don't think so. It doesn't sound like clipping to me. It sounds like over-driven drivers.

On female vocals, they can handle the power, but with more complex stuff they start to fall apart. This is very aggressive volume, however, and not something I would do often. Probably something I should avoid completely, in fact, with these drivers.
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Old 30th November 2012, 04:38 AM   #24
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So, all things considered, if I plan not to abuse the EL70s as I did tonight, is 6.5w enough?

(Perhaps I should plug in my Lepai LP-2020A+ (bedroom amp) and see how it goes. I have read that it is only good for about 5-6 (clean) watts...)

Last edited by cogitech; 30th November 2012 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 30th November 2012, 05:04 AM   #25
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Well, I am listening to the Lepai LP-2020A+ with the EL70s.

What I have learned is:

1) It is a fine amp for light music/TV in the bedroom, otherwise it is a piece of sh!t
2) It is easy to push it to clipping before I am satisfied
3) Anyone who claims the Lepai can offer an "audiophile" grade audio experience is sadly suffering from insanity or extreme hearing loss.

My (perhaps laughable) Yamaha is 1000% better than the Lepai. Seriously. All the life, soundstage, "reality" has disappeared. I feel like I am listening to a stereo system. I am not accustomed to this.

I am convinced a small tube amp will sound fantastic, but will it clip as quickly as the Lepai?

Last edited by cogitech; 30th November 2012 at 05:15 AM.
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Old 30th November 2012, 05:13 AM   #26
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Lepai back to the bedroom, where it belongs (if it belongs in my home at all).

What an eye opener.

Adele sounds like she is here again, not inside a stereo system.

Last edited by cogitech; 30th November 2012 at 05:18 AM.
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Old 30th November 2012, 05:27 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by fandersen View Post
I have tried several different amps with my EL70 towers including Rega Brio 3, Quad 303, Quad 405, and my KT88 Tubelab SSE. I think the EL70 towers sound good with all the amps I have tried, however I think the best is the Tubelab SSE as the music seems to have more depth. I'm guessing that the SSE is putting out about 10-12W and in my 20' x 14' living room with a vaulted ceiling it has no problem playing louder than I would want.
Thanks for your feedback! I will consider the Tubelab.

EDIT: Sh!t. No way I can build an amp...

Last edited by cogitech; 30th November 2012 at 05:29 AM.
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Old 30th November 2012, 05:41 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by cogitech View Post
but will it clip as quickly as the Lepai?
No, the onset of serious distortion is more gradual with tube amps.

jeff
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Old 30th November 2012, 05:52 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by cogitech View Post
Thanks for your feedback! I will consider the Tubelab.

EDIT: Sh!t. No way I can build an amp...
Dude, if chrisb can build a tube amp that doesn't blow up (immediately), then probably anyone can - just take your time, read the instructions, and keep one hand in your pocket when voltage testing.


As much as I love both the EL70s, and several SE amps I've owned over the years ( each in a honorable way of course), I think these drivers really shine with a PP pentode or triode tube amp - needn't be of huge wattage. And I'd not be quite so uncharitable in regards to all T-class amps, but granted the Lepai is not the most refined.
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Old 30th November 2012, 11:51 PM   #30
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I'm really starting to backstep on this whole idea.

I'm sitting here listening to Eagles - Desperado for the first time on this system (don't know why it has been so long...) and it is like I am hearing the album for the first time. When I close my eyes during Saturday Night and Bitter Creek I am transported to a very large barn; the imaging is just insane. These are tracks that I have only passively listened to in the past.

This happens all the time with my current setup. I listen to something that I tired of years ago and it is like I am listening to it for the first time. It feels like I am in the studio or hall, or barn with the band, or they are in my living room... depends...

I truly wish some of you more experienced listeners could hear my system as it is. It is hard to imagine it sounding better. Naive, I am sure, but why mess with something that's not broken?

If I am really critical, the low end could stand an upgrade. I am filling it in with a fairly low-end HT sub. Granted, I have the ports stuffed with socks and I have the crossover tuned for a perfect blend with the microTowers (I let the microTowers do as much of the bass as is reasonable and then just "rich up" the bass with the sub. It is more musical this way than trying to offload all the bass to the sub.

The experience last night with the Lepai made me really question things a lot. I see all kinds of people raving about the sound quality of it. In my bedroom system it is fine. I really enjoy it in there, to be honest. But when directly compared to the Yamaha in my main system... well, night and day. It shocked me.

I am convinced I don't want to buy "just some cheap Chinese tube amp". I am also convinced I cannot build an amp. Looks like I will be saving up some real money and investing in something that won't disappoint me. I just wish I could try a decent tube amp in the meantime... to provide some motivation to save $$$

Hell, who knows, maybe I'm a SS guy? I think not, though, as I much prefer my system with the B283 than without it.

... Moody Blues - A Question of Balance, 24-bit, 88.2khz ... eerie.

Last edited by cogitech; 1st December 2012 at 12:11 AM.
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