Please nudge a n00b in the right direction for cabinet/amp build. - Page 2 - diyAudio
Go Back   Home > Forums > Loudspeakers > Full Range

Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 27th November 2012, 01:07 AM   #11
zman01 is offline zman01  Bangladesh
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Dhaka
Hmmm... good question.... the EL70 - well those are bass monsters in the P10 Mar-Kel box , and the Alp 7.3 is no slouch - I haven't heard them in Pensils though.

One thing I found - the amp matters and watts matter when it comes to LF performance. Sometimes with low watt tube gear, the dynamics and weight are less perceptible even at similar SPL. For example, with my A12 metal with a 5 watt SEP, in a movie scene the sound of a gong wasn't coming out that impressive; just out of curiosity we switched to a Hypex UcD - wow - so much more impact and texture.

Well A12P is a different driver altogether and these discussions can be endless.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2012, 01:44 AM   #12
diyAudio Member
 
vinylkid58's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zman01 View Post
One thing I found - the amp matters and watts matter when it comes to LF performance. Sometimes with low watt tube gear, the dynamics and weight are less perceptible even at similar SPL. For example, with my A12 metal with a 5 watt SEP, in a movie scene the sound of a gong wasn't coming out that impressive; just out of curiosity we switched to a Hypex UcD - wow - so much more impact and texture.
Some low watt OPT's start rolling off as high as 100Hz.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zman01 View Post
Well A12P is a different driver altogether and these discussions can be endless.
It's a wonderful driver! You'll get no argument from me.

jeff
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2012, 05:34 PM   #13
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicagolandia
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
Silbury is part of the this design family:

Woden Design | Mark Audio

There are also variants of these enclosures for similarly sized Fostex drivers ( V-bomber series)

I've heard the Maeshowe / Valiant with MA A7.3 / Fostex FE126En, and Victor with Fostex FE166En, and FE166ESR - all are great performers, with slightly different flavors - none are tiny (shortest comes in at 60") - but they can be made pretty.
Yeah better half does not like the idea of something as tall as me in the house so silbury is a BIB and out, too bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Hi,

FWIW convincing yourself you want an FR is not a good idea IMHO.

I've nothing against them, as an aquired taste, but they wouldn't be
my first foray into genuine hifi, your only going to confuse yourself.

Read the FAQ's here :
http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy

A very good first speaker to build for a gain clone is :
https://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy/amiga
IMO a great attempt at real high quality on a budget.

Make a good job of them, and they will stand as a great reference
for future speaker builds, of any sort. A high quality 6.5"/1" two
way making a decent attempt at real bass extension really is
where proper hi fi for music starts without a subwoofer.


YMMV, but IMO don't be seduced by nebulous theory of FR's.

rgds, sreten.

Also FWIW my favourite budget hifi amplifier is a used Pioneer
A300X, which can go for silly money, as you can see here :
Pioneer A300X Integrated Amplifier with phono inputs | eBay
You couldn't hope to build anything remotely as good for $100
.
Again for hifi, a very good reference point for future builds.

Top the lot off with a with a nice used Marantz SE CD player for
about $50, or a nice vinyl source which will run to $300 plus.
Yikes, I appreciate your advice. but really? does anyone else here agree? I am the guy that after all drives a 91 VW Corrado thinking its the best vw ever made, even if it brakes often . As far as amps go is that true as well?

Really I hope your post is not biting me in the *** a month down the line after I build my ish.
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinylkid58 View Post
Like a MakerSpace?



Depends what driver/drivers you are talking about, and what your definition of bass is. Alpair 12p gives up a little low bass extension in comparison to A10.2 and A7.3 in the Pensil, but for some music, you might not notice.

jeff
actually check it out. home | dock6

As far as A10.2 vs P12.2 I like very natural bass. I love how flat my headphones are. Just true to the source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zman01 View Post
Hmmm... good question.... the EL70 - well those are bass monsters in the P10 Mar-Kel box , and the Alp 7.3 is no slouch - I haven't heard them in Pensils though.

One thing I found - the amp matters and watts matter when it comes to LF performance. Sometimes with low watt tube gear, the dynamics and weight are less perceptible even at similar SPL. For example, with my A12 metal with a 5 watt SEP, in a movie scene the sound of a gong wasn't coming out that impressive; just out of curiosity we switched to a Hypex UcD - wow - so much more impact and texture.

Well A12P is a different driver altogether and these discussions can be endless.
Would I be pushing enough oomph with lm1875t with strong power supply to push all the available bass out of the 12.2P? Is sreten right when he says i will not be able to make an amp that sounds as good as the Pioneer A300X for less than $100? I have read that amp does make a difference in bass reproduction on these 12.2P in Pensils. I am still not sure what negative effects SuperPensil over just the Pensil cab.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2012, 05:40 PM   #14
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Chicagolandia
Can I listen to a full range speakers anywhere in Chicagoland. Anyone aware of any dealer etc?
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2012, 06:22 PM   #15
diyAudio Member
 
vinylkid58's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Victoria, B.C.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin C View Post
does anyone else here agree?
Nope!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin C View Post
Would I be pushing enough oomph with lm1875t with strong power supply to push all the available bass out of the 12.2P?
They are easy to drive and don't require a lot of power. 20 watts is plenty for an average size room.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin C View Post
Is sreten right when he says i will not be able to make an amp that sounds as good as the Pioneer A300X for less than $100?
Maybe, but who cares.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin C View Post
I am still not sure what negative effects SuperPensil over just the Pensil cab.
Weight.

jeff
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2012, 06:56 PM   #16
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin C View Post
Yikes, I appreciate your advice. but really? does anyone else here agree?
Sreten is quite knowledgable, has a lot of experience, but i don't think he has grooked the harm that having an XO in the critical band has to the cohesion of the music -- the "magic" that a good FR brings to the table. I have nothing against 2-ways, but fell that id the XO isn't on the order of 400 Hz or less, then you lose that "magic" character that has had many of us become FR afficianados abandoning the typical multi-way loudspeaker. I believe the best of both worlds is a small FR + helper woofers. I am a big fan of the smaller FRs, feeling that the 5-4.5" range is the sweet spot for a single driver speaker.

With the LM1875 you will have more than enuff power to look at the less efficient drivers (such as the Mark Audios & Fostex FFx5wk). It should be noted that these chip amps shine their best when the imdeance they are driving is benign -- typical of a FR speaker.

The FExx6 series has been around for a long time and have had a long time to establish themselves. They are the goto driver when the efficiency is needed to match your <5W SE amp (tubes or SS), but there are many much newer driver families than exchange efficiency for greater smoothness and deeper bass in more reasonable size boxes.

Zia, A7.3 sims 10 Hz lower in 9 litre than A12.2p in 16 litre miniOnken,

A10.2 is an ideal compromise between bass and the DDR of the A7.3.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2012, 07:33 PM   #17
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Sreten is quite knowledgable, has a lot of experience, but i don't think he
has grooked the harm that having an XO in the critical band has to the
cohesion of the music -- the "magic" that a good FR brings to the table.
dave
Hi,

All I can say is the FR forum is biased, and not the best place IMO for
a newbie being "seduced" by the wonders of FR's without really any
real understanding of their limitations that go with one advantage.

"Grooked" seems to be a meaningless word, so it could mean anything.
The "all crossovers are evil" argument only holds water in the FR forum.
As does FR's have a "magic" nothing else can provide, perhaps, but the
FR forum glosses over the loads of inherent faults / limitations of FR's.

I stand by what I said. A first build should be a very high value hifi speaker,
that is not too complicated, based on a thoroughly competent design, that
is guaranteed to provide a good result, and a very good reference standard.

I've nothing against FR's, FAST's and the like as long as you understand
exactly what you are getting and not getting into, and can tweak to fix.

Reality does bite. Imagination does get carried away.

rgds, sreten.

The VW Corrado is a Golf GTI mk2 with knobs on. Bang for buck though
the original Golf GTI mk1 for some is still the best. First build : B for B.

http://sites.google.com/site/undefinition/diy (see if nothing else, the excellent FAQs)
http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=219617
http://www.zaphaudio.com
http://www.zaphaudio.com/ZA5/
http://www.rjbaudio.com/Audiofiles/FRDtools.html
http://web.archive.org/web/200909021...esigningXO.htm
http://www.rjbaudio.com/
http://web.archive.org/web/200909022...ve99/Spkrbldg/
http://speakerdesignworks.com/
http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=28655
http://www.deadwaxcafe.com/vzone/david/david.htm
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Lou...r_Projects.htm
http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/download.html
http://www.quarter-wave.com/
http://www.pispeakers.com/contents.html
http://www.frugal-horn.com/
http://www.2pi-online.de/
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/
http://www.musicanddesign.com/

Great free SPICE Emulator : http://focus.ti.com/docs/toolsw/fold...t/tina-ti.html
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow

Last edited by sreten; 27th November 2012 at 07:46 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2012, 07:47 PM   #18
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
All I can say is the FR forum is biased
Of course it is biased, just as the multiway & exotic forums are biased and why there are separate forums.

Quote:
"Grooked" seems to be a meaningless word
It is a very meaningful word, if you are widely enuff read to have encounterd it.

Quote:
The "all crossovers are evil" argument only holds water in the FR forum.
Actually that is a paraphrase of something Earl Geddes said -- i can't recall ever seeing him here on the FR forum.

Quote:
A first build should be a very high value hifi speaker,
that is not too complicated, based on a thoroughly competent design, that
is guaranteed to provide a good result, and a very good reference standard.
Sounds like you are describing a competent FR build to me. Really hard to beat a good FR in a proven box for value for the dollar when you are talking say <$350 for drivers, and certainly the case for <$100 (just ask anyone living with EL70 for instance)

Quote:
I've nothing against FR's, FAST's and the like as long as you understand
exactly what you are getting and not getting into
I've nothing against multi-ways as long as you understand
exactly what you are getting and not getting into

Given how bad speakers are in general (i estimate the best are 10-20% of what is possible), it is very possible to make 2 perfectly valid speakers that sound completely different because of the different set of compromises taken.

OP posted in the FR forum, obviously has done some research, so i will assume that he has at least the basics on the compromises involved with choosng a single FR driver.

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2012, 07:52 PM   #19
sreten is offline sreten  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Brighton UK
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
OP posted in the FR forum,
obviously has done some research, so i will assume that he has at least
the basics on the compromises involved with choosng a single FR driver.

dave
Hi, Can't argue with that, if its true, rgds, sreten.
__________________
There is nothing so practical as a really good theory - Ludwig Boltzmann
When your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail - Abraham Maslow
  Reply With Quote
Old 27th November 2012, 07:59 PM   #20
frugal-phile(tm)
diyAudio Moderator
 
planet10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Victoria, BC, NA, Sol III
Blog Entries: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by sreten View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
(just ask anyone living with EL70 for instance)
Value for the dollar.

Of interest here, is a shoot-out between Overnite Sensation & the mMar-Ken70 2 diyFESTs ago.... the number of people voting with their dollars cleaning Bob out of the EL70 he brought (5-8 pr?). EL70 <90/pr + transport. OS, $170 landed in Canada.

Even a tarted up pair of EL70eN (Sreten has a strong opinion on EnABL too) $160/pr (granted, once transport etc paid, more than the OS kit --but way less complex).

dave
__________________
community sites t-linespeakers.org, frugal-horn.com, frugal-phile.com ........ commercial site planet10-HiFi
p10-hifi forum here at diyA
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Hide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
n00b alert: no clue and wanting to build a chang cberger Full Range 5 20th September 2011 11:51 PM
Need some direction/advice for upcoming build Commited Full Range 39 21st April 2011 08:51 AM
Quick advice on which direction to take this build kgb_m3 Chip Amps 4 30th December 2009 03:45 PM
need to build a transformer.... point me in right direction? AudioGeek Power Supplies 3 5th February 2005 01:37 AM
bass cabinet build two 18&quot; speaker.. help szgabor Multi-Way 3 7th August 2004 01:23 AM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:36 PM.


vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2014 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright 1999-2014 diyAudio

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2