Sweet little setup there Melo. I've never seen an OLED, but would like to. Have heard they're pretty remarkable. Kind of tough to watch a movie as a family like that though 😉
Like, I said, it's debatable if 24fps is even bad. My uncle is Jim VanDijk. He's been a lead camera man for a lot of years. Filmed several of those fantasy films you love Melo, like Xmen, Fantastic 4, etc. And of course, quite a few good ones, but a lot of Disney stuff. Anyways, he's very knowledgable about this stuff. I love talking with him during holidays. We once chatted about the subject for over an hour. I took the position that 24fps was bad. I based that position because why not 30hz, my tv would like it more.
But the camera man would say:
I get better exposure with a slower reel (so dark scenes can be exposed better);
I get smear which I want so the frames blend better;
The eye likes 24fps;
I don't give a crap about your inferior TV, I only care about what it looks like on film.
The 3rd point really shocked me. He claimed that 24frames is much more natural for the human eye. It's that "film" look compared to broadcast tv. Ever watch a tv that interpolates frames, it looks weird. Apparently 24fps was partly selected because our eyes like it.
He knows much more than I do. I might bug him about this subject some more at Christmas.
Jim Van Dijk - IMDb
Well, one day there will be no more theaters just like there are no more record stores.
Movies will be released digitally over the web and we will all be enjoying them through our HMD's complete with binaural audio.
Then we can finally close up shop here, plug into our headset and sit around with the family in silence!
😱
Well, I can understand the point of the camera liking the slow frame rate more. This could be an argument of analog vs. digital.
As far as the second point.....no.
I can clearly see choppiness on slow pans with that frame rate.
No way, no how!
Interpolated frames on a tv is horrible. that's why we need a faster frame rate to start with.
While properly displaying 24fps? Usually the chop comes every 1/2 second when it displays the frame twice. Or however it does that, can't remember the details anymore. If it's a true 24fps source, it's pretty smooth. Sure, 30fps is "smoother". But neither has chop imo. Sure, if the pan is exactly the right speed you can make out the frames if paying attention. Same would likely apply to 30fps. But chop is pretty obvious to me.
I'll bug him more when I see him. It's still an argument I'd agree with you on. I'd prefer the faster frame rate overal. But I'm a little on the fence.
You are talking about the 3:2 pull down to marry 24fps to 30fps.
No, I am referring to 24fps on film.
Much blur and choppiness.
The camera guy i know is of a much different opinion...he figures 60 FPS is a minimum.
He is always complaining about picketing and other artifacts of the slow frame rate.
IIRC, the rate we actually see at the theatre is 48 FPS but each frame is exposed twice.
dave
As a computer gamer I do know that there is a clear difference between 24fps and 30fps.
Mainly during fast movement scenes.
I did some reading about this phenomenon many years ago and I seem to remember that it has to do with the rate at which our eyes register frames as opposed to the frame rate our brain "sees".
During these fast motion scenes I can peg my computer to limit frame rates to 32fps and I never experience choppiness AT ALL.
However I do know that when I have frame rates pegged at 60fps it just looks smoother & I can't explain that.
I can say that I do notice the same symptoms with a movie displayed at 60hz with 30fps V.S. 60hz 24fps.
When I set my TV to 120hz the symptom disappears.
120hz is exactly 5x of 24fps & 120hz is exactly 4x of 30fps.
I suspect that the choppiness that is reported is an artifact of dropped frames that don't round properly within the refresh rate of the display screen.
Mainly during fast movement scenes.
I did some reading about this phenomenon many years ago and I seem to remember that it has to do with the rate at which our eyes register frames as opposed to the frame rate our brain "sees".
During these fast motion scenes I can peg my computer to limit frame rates to 32fps and I never experience choppiness AT ALL.
However I do know that when I have frame rates pegged at 60fps it just looks smoother & I can't explain that.
I can say that I do notice the same symptoms with a movie displayed at 60hz with 30fps V.S. 60hz 24fps.
When I set my TV to 120hz the symptom disappears.
120hz is exactly 5x of 24fps & 120hz is exactly 4x of 30fps.
I suspect that the choppiness that is reported is an artifact of dropped frames that don't round properly within the refresh rate of the display screen.
Dave, 60 fps is really high. I'm not sure your buddy could film much in the dark. It would be tight, but such little exposure time. They should do both now in the digital realm. It's a flick of the switch on the RED cameras. My uncle Jim used to be a partner in the RED camera of western Canada. He could change it on the fly, but would still use 24fps unless shooting video (30fps).
I think you're right that theatres use double shutters for pseudo 48fps.
I think you're right that theatres use double shutters for pseudo 48fps.
At this point we aren't much talking about film, but digital.
Alexa does 60 fps -- i have been told ARRI's best selling camera ever
dave
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Alexa does 60 fps -- i have been told ARRI's best selling camera ever
dave
Soap opera effect...
The question is, does higher frame rates degrade some of the "cinematic" feel of a movie, or is that more of a function of interpolated frames and stuff like 3:2 pull down. If you shoot it at high frame rates and playback at high frame rates it should look good?
The Hobbit, the “Soap Opera Effect,” and the 48fps (and Faster) Future of Movies | Studio Daily
The "soap opera" effect annoys me like anything, and I would happily live with a bit of judder (is that the term?) on wide panning shots vs having to put up with the ultra smooth but hand camera look and feel that 120 Hz and other features TVs implement. I am still assuming that since these are applied to a content that has already been shot at different FPS, it looks funny.
The question is, does higher frame rates degrade some of the "cinematic" feel of a movie, or is that more of a function of interpolated frames and stuff like 3:2 pull down. If you shoot it at high frame rates and playback at high frame rates it should look good?
The Hobbit, the “Soap Opera Effect,” and the 48fps (and Faster) Future of Movies | Studio Daily
The "soap opera" effect annoys me like anything, and I would happily live with a bit of judder (is that the term?) on wide panning shots vs having to put up with the ultra smooth but hand camera look and feel that 120 Hz and other features TVs implement. I am still assuming that since these are applied to a content that has already been shot at different FPS, it looks funny.
The interpolation that 120hz & 240hz gives makes me almost nauseous.
This effect doesn't seem to be an issue on 600hz Panasonic Plasmas.
This effect doesn't seem to be an issue on 600hz Panasonic Plasmas.
That's because interpolation adds frames.
I hate it too, makes me woozy.
It wouldn't have that effect if the frame rate was that high natively.
We don't feel sick looking at real life 🙂
Plasmas don't add frames. They just display what the source frame rate is.
Well, so they say.
I hate it too, makes me woozy.
It wouldn't have that effect if the frame rate was that high natively.
We don't feel sick looking at real life 🙂
Plasmas don't add frames. They just display what the source frame rate is.
Well, so they say.
I figured that the interpolation rate of a 600hz plasma got to the point that it tricked my eyes/brain because the interpolation rate was so high that I couldn't see the difference.
No, plasmas don't use interpolation, except for a couple of panisonics.
They only do it because its trendy, not for performance. And only 120Hz
If they were adding enough for 600Hz, that would be a crap load of frames 😉
They only do it because its trendy, not for performance. And only 120Hz
If they were adding enough for 600Hz, that would be a crap load of frames 😉
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