I've finally finished my 300B SET amplifier project (sounds awesome!) so now I'd like to start a FR speaker build. I'm knee-deep into trying to understand audio circuits, so I don't really have the brain-power to learn speaker theory too. So, I'm looking for advice and suggestions for PROVEN designs that meet my needs.
I need...
a Flat impedance Curve (Tubelab SE 300B tube amp)
high efficiency (working with 8W of power)
a Wide Sweet Spot (good off axis response)
Prefer 100% speaker (no caps, no filters, no super tweeters or helper woofers)
I prefer...
Drivers in the under $300 range (for both). This isn't strict, but I'd like to be in this neighborhood.
Plans for 3/4" Baltic Birch ply. Preferably something that could fit on a 4x8 foot sheet.
Straight cuts. I have a router and medium wood skills, but I still would like an easy plan.
Floor standing speakers (up to 6 feet tall). Large is ok. I do not want bookshelf speakers on a stand.
I like the Curvy Changs, Pencils, and Lotus; I don't like the Frugal Horn.
I have...
An unfinished basement. The listening area is approximately 25' wide, 50' deep, and 10' tall. The speakers will be on concrete, but there is a lot of clutter and floor rugs. There isn't a noticeable echo effect (like you would get in an empty unfinished basement).
I am currently using Parts Express TriTrix speakers (89db TL) and they sound remarkably good for what they are. The new FR speakers will go side-by-side with these.
A fairly powerful subwoofer. While I would like the new FR to go pretty low, it's not absolutely required.
Since I own the basement (and the wife owns the living area), there is no WAF to consider. There are also no size limits (although under 6 feet tall is desired for manageability).
I listen to many types of music - Classic Rock, Rock, Blues, Metal, House/Techno. Since this will be a compete second system (amp/speakers) it doesn't have to play all types of music well (but would be nice if it did).
Other...
I'm curious about ENABL'd speakers.
I don't know why, but I am somewhat drawn to Mark Audio speakers.
I've never actually heard a proper FR speaker, so I'm shooting in the dark here. I hope I like the sound, but if not I won't be bitter.
Long story; short... I would like a recommendation for a proven speaker and enclosure configuration. Something that I can build without having to do my own calculations (I'll save that for a 2013 project!)
Thanks!
I need...
a Flat impedance Curve (Tubelab SE 300B tube amp)
high efficiency (working with 8W of power)
a Wide Sweet Spot (good off axis response)
Prefer 100% speaker (no caps, no filters, no super tweeters or helper woofers)
I prefer...
Drivers in the under $300 range (for both). This isn't strict, but I'd like to be in this neighborhood.
Plans for 3/4" Baltic Birch ply. Preferably something that could fit on a 4x8 foot sheet.
Straight cuts. I have a router and medium wood skills, but I still would like an easy plan.
Floor standing speakers (up to 6 feet tall). Large is ok. I do not want bookshelf speakers on a stand.
I like the Curvy Changs, Pencils, and Lotus; I don't like the Frugal Horn.
I have...
An unfinished basement. The listening area is approximately 25' wide, 50' deep, and 10' tall. The speakers will be on concrete, but there is a lot of clutter and floor rugs. There isn't a noticeable echo effect (like you would get in an empty unfinished basement).
I am currently using Parts Express TriTrix speakers (89db TL) and they sound remarkably good for what they are. The new FR speakers will go side-by-side with these.
A fairly powerful subwoofer. While I would like the new FR to go pretty low, it's not absolutely required.
Since I own the basement (and the wife owns the living area), there is no WAF to consider. There are also no size limits (although under 6 feet tall is desired for manageability).
I listen to many types of music - Classic Rock, Rock, Blues, Metal, House/Techno. Since this will be a compete second system (amp/speakers) it doesn't have to play all types of music well (but would be nice if it did).
Other...
I'm curious about ENABL'd speakers.
I don't know why, but I am somewhat drawn to Mark Audio speakers.
I've never actually heard a proper FR speaker, so I'm shooting in the dark here. I hope I like the sound, but if not I won't be bitter.
Long story; short... I would like a recommendation for a proven speaker and enclosure configuration. Something that I can build without having to do my own calculations (I'll save that for a 2013 project!)
Thanks!
just a thought!
With that amount of space I would not Frugle either! I would build myself a couple of nice Corner Horns in a Fullrange single Driver!
With that amount of space I would not Frugle either! I would build myself a couple of nice Corner Horns in a Fullrange single Driver!
If I were you, I would try the Alpair 12P in a Pencil, check this thread http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/222740-alpair-12p-first-listen.html he has a 45 tube amp, should be great with your 300B
With regard to your "needs" I would use a minimum highish sensitivity 8" driver in a rear loaded horn. Fostex 208e Sigma in a RCA-Fan rear loaded horn is what I used: Acoustic Horn - Backload K-Horn . Then run one of those Fostex supertweeters (T500 or TA90) over the top with a single cap. This should fill your large room with only 8 watts.
I dunno about corner horns 25ft apart - but the room certainly sounds big enough to support a large BLH of some type
First thing that comes to mind is the Woden Avebury and Alpair12P .
Woden Design | Avebury
They would certainly take more than a single 4x8 sheet, and the curves to side panels are not optional, but could be rough cut by hand with jig saw - with that much unfinished floor space, use a compass jig to route curved pattern from MDF, then clean up the curved panels with pattern following bit. All the other parts except for the small deflector panels are straight cuts & butt joinery.
Of course, life is much easier with access to a CNC machining center or flat bed router.
First thing that comes to mind is the Woden Avebury and Alpair12P .
Woden Design | Avebury
They would certainly take more than a single 4x8 sheet, and the curves to side panels are not optional, but could be rough cut by hand with jig saw - with that much unfinished floor space, use a compass jig to route curved pattern from MDF, then clean up the curved panels with pattern following bit. All the other parts except for the small deflector panels are straight cuts & butt joinery.
Of course, life is much easier with access to a CNC machining center or flat bed router.
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Corner horns 25ft apart aren't going to cut it. Not unless you're near the back wall, in which case wideband drivers aren't what you need. Think Altec Voice of the Theatre & you're on the right lines.
Assuming the A12P, the pensil would fit the requirements since it has a relatively flat impedance. It's no subwoofer since I traded extension for efficiency & a fairly unreactive load, but it's not too bad. Otherwise, name your poison, although there aren't all that many designs for the A12P out there at the moment as it's still a fairly new driver.
Just as a general point, wideband drivers aren't really ideal for classic rock / metal / techno. They can do a decent job, but a good multiway will have an edge.
Assuming the A12P, the pensil would fit the requirements since it has a relatively flat impedance. It's no subwoofer since I traded extension for efficiency & a fairly unreactive load, but it's not too bad. Otherwise, name your poison, although there aren't all that many designs for the A12P out there at the moment as it's still a fairly new driver.
Just as a general point, wideband drivers aren't really ideal for classic rock / metal / techno. They can do a decent job, but a good multiway will have an edge.
I don't the science of all this like the others who have replied, but I built a small Mark Audio set of FR speakers for use with a small tube amp and they are outstanding. I will be doing more Mark Audio projects. So, based on my experience and what the others in this thread have said, I'd recommend a Mark Audio project like the Alpair 12P Pencil.
Just my 2 cents.
Mike
Just my 2 cents.
Mike
With the A12p Super Pencil, you may want to have a little more power on tap. I'm thinkin' the 300B amp will be running out of gas when it's time to get up and "dance".
jeff
Thanks for all the great ideas!!!! It sounds like some Alpair 12P's are in my future! I'll go ahead and get the drivers even though I'm torn on the box design. I love the simplicity of the pencil, but the Avebury is a thing of beauty!
Related question: What are the sound characteristics of a simple design like the Pencil and the crazy path through the Avebury? Is the extra wood/effort worth it (or are the differences minor)?
Final Question: Has anyone tried ENABL'd 12P's? Are the even available?
Related question: What are the sound characteristics of a simple design like the Pencil and the crazy path through the Avebury? Is the extra wood/effort worth it (or are the differences minor)?
Final Question: Has anyone tried ENABL'd 12P's? Are the even available?
I have not listen to a SuperPensil but I have built and listen to Avebury with A12p. May be someone else who has heard both can comment on the difference. But I imagine the Avebury will sound bigger and go lower.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/221937-avebury-a12p-build.html
Those are phenomenal speakers. The A12p mids and highs are sweet. The bass is amazing. I can hear down to 25hz in room. My room is 13' X 35' x 9'. I power them with a 5 watt F2J clone and they are plenty loud for me. Your basement is a lot bigger than my room, but I imagine you don't need to place them 25' apart. Granted, the wider the separation, the larger the sound stage, but if you dont have a lot of power to spare, then you can place them closer together say 10-15 ft apart and sit at about the same distance away. After experimenting with placement, I settle on placing them 20" from back and 20" from side walls and 8 ' apart. If you want a box for a single full range driver that goes from 25hz to 20kz, the Avebury is hard to beat. I also placed 1" of felt instead of the recommended 1/2" on the back chamber wall parallel to the cone to provide a bit more dampening. Auto junk yard is a good place to find cheap 1/2 in felt. They are used to line cabin floor and trunk under the carpet. Bring an exacto knife if you go there. It'll make it easier to cut them out of the floor.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/221937-avebury-a12p-build.html
Those are phenomenal speakers. The A12p mids and highs are sweet. The bass is amazing. I can hear down to 25hz in room. My room is 13' X 35' x 9'. I power them with a 5 watt F2J clone and they are plenty loud for me. Your basement is a lot bigger than my room, but I imagine you don't need to place them 25' apart. Granted, the wider the separation, the larger the sound stage, but if you dont have a lot of power to spare, then you can place them closer together say 10-15 ft apart and sit at about the same distance away. After experimenting with placement, I settle on placing them 20" from back and 20" from side walls and 8 ' apart. If you want a box for a single full range driver that goes from 25hz to 20kz, the Avebury is hard to beat. I also placed 1" of felt instead of the recommended 1/2" on the back chamber wall parallel to the cone to provide a bit more dampening. Auto junk yard is a good place to find cheap 1/2 in felt. They are used to line cabin floor and trunk under the carpet. Bring an exacto knife if you go there. It'll make it easier to cut them out of the floor.
You can cut down on the effort by having HomeDepot precut your boards to the exact dim for you. I know I am going against conventional wisdom but with the Avebury build, HD ended up ripping all the boards for me to exact width and all I have to do at home is to cut them to exact length. the 1st HD I went to, the associate was upfront and warned me that their saw was not aligned so it cannot make straight cut. So I went to another HD and asked if their saw was aligned and can make straight cut. The associate said yes and said that he can cut to the exact dimension. So I put him to the test. Using the cutting plan included with the Avebury, I planned ahead and make sure that he makes all the cuts that needs to have the same witdth done without moving the blade and only move the blade when the next set of board widths needs to be cut. I have him set the cut width to the width of the side panels and have him rip all the 4 side panels at once. He marked the wood, pushed the plywood sheet against the blade, nicked it and pulledl it out for me too see and it was right on the mark, so I let him rip all 4 side panels. Next I told him to set the blade to the width of the internal panels and rip all the internal panels with the same setting. This time I was a little over confident of his ability so when he nick the wood and pull it out, I did not check very carefully and it ended up being a little less than 1/16 inch off. But as long as all panels are the same width, it did not matter to me that much and it is worth the saving of not having to rip the boards at home alone. HD ended up not even charging me for the cuts and they made at least 4-5 rips for each sheet of plywood. HD has sale associates that are eager to help you, unlike some other big box lumber yard that I wont name where I could not even find someone to help me load the plywood on my cart, let alone helping me cut the wood. No wonders HD is doing well and the other big box lumber yard is in financial trouble.
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