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Old 11th November 2012, 02:58 AM   #81
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Old 11th November 2012, 03:08 AM   #82
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Old 11th November 2012, 03:21 AM   #83
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Reread the op's 1st post again guys.
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Old 11th November 2012, 03:53 AM   #84
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Done.
I'm tending toward the conclusion that the confusion isn't so much from "what is a full range loudspeaker?" as it is from "what is the difference between a full range loudspeaker and a 2- or 3- way, with the LF connected as full range?"
To me, a full range speaker with "These can sometimes be "helped" with a tweeter(s) or a woofer(s)" is technically a 2-way. But since the design emphasis is very much aimed at the FR driver, it is suitable for this forum.
I believe that is what the OP was referring to. When the design emphasis is on a multi-way system as a whole, posters are better served in the other forum.
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Last edited by sofaspud; 11th November 2012 at 03:56 AM.
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Old 11th November 2012, 08:02 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
This would be considered a FR + helper tweeter. Don't beleive them when they say no XO, there is at least a cap on the tweeter. The is no cut-off on the wide-range, that is just where it rolls off naturally (and i'd guess struggles to get that high. A diy version of this would be an eminence 12LTA with a coaxially mounted Fostex FT17.

dave
Aha! for some reason I thought crossovers were more complicated than just a cap. I might have to play with one in my next speaker build so I get a better understanding of them. Thanks mate!

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Originally Posted by Cal Weldon View Post
Taken from their site:
"The tweeter’s high-pass is, by design, a simple, single component network, a single polypro’ capacitor."

Quite common when crossing over that high.

It's a fullrange with a helper tweeter, often called a supertweeter.

Yes, it's called point source, one of the advantages of FR and coax systems
Thanks for the helpful explanation mate, I can feel my understanding on this shifting under my feet as I type!

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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Although you can find hundreds of arguments about whether inductors, resistors, and caps are audible, there is virtually no debate that the acoustic problems created by a cross over far exceed any problems created by the components.

In other words, that's all nice and dandy that they've avoided any parts in the signal save for a single cap, but they're not immune to the greater issue of what a cross over does.

Lucky for them, it's so high it's likely inaudible and it is coaxed.
Well you learn something new every day! I had no idea that the problems with crossovers were so easy to introduce, I always thought of it as difficult to do properly. It is funny how these things go.

Thank you for taking the time to address my comments
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Old 11th November 2012, 12:02 PM   #86
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How about "No cross-over in the 300-3kHz band"?

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Old 11th November 2012, 01:38 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
40-20kHz (or 30-15k) is certainly doable with the best of today's FR drivers. What is usually given up is ultimate levels & dynamics. If you don't listen that loud then no big deal.
Sorry, but I cannot give up either ultimate levels or dynamics - hence why I don't think XO less speaker are for everyone.

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If you look at most multiways, few go down to 30 Hz, & a typical 1" dome is starting to fade above 15k. And each XO you introduce brings a whole slew of distortions.

dave
Just like anything there are tradeoffs. I would rather trade a whole slew of distortions for ultimate levels and dynamics. Besides, all XO are not the devil that you are making it. There are some well designed XO that do not introduce a "whole slew of distortions"(which I think is an exaggeration). Any XO will introduce some distortion, but so will a single driver trying to do deep bass and high frequencies at live levels.
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Old 11th November 2012, 04:00 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by blizzardbuffalo View Post
Thanks for the helpful explanation mate, I can feel my understanding on this shifting under my feet as I type!
Sorry bb,
Your post led me to believe you needed that elementary of an explanation.
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Old 11th November 2012, 04:13 PM   #89
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I dont agree with the idea that a fullrange NEED to cover all the ranges. A fullrange will never give powerful bass. I personnally dont believe that anyone can be satisfied with only a fullrange for their main system. for the highs, I can live easily with just a fullrange, but I personnally absolutely need powerful bass, and no fullrange can give chess pumping bass.

I dont listen to my music loud, but even at low volumes, what stereo sub do cannot be done by a fullrange. their is no feeling of bass with a fullrange, you just hear it. I like to feel my bass personnaly.

What I really like is the fact that I have no crossover in the midrange, but a XO at 100 hz is really no big deal and you dont hear it at all, its just big bass with the clarity in the mid and high from a fullrange.
anywas
Even for people listening only to jazz, i listen to jazz 40% of the time, and even that, I need my bass to keep me grooving, and no 6 inch or even 8 inch fullrange will give me what some stereo sub will give me under 100 hz. its already incredible that a fullrange can give a flat response from 100 hz to 15 khz, a fullrange is a wideband driver, simple as that, but it cant go flat down to 50 hz at 100 db without ridiculous excursion ect.

Last edited by murphythecat8; 11th November 2012 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 11th November 2012, 04:38 PM   #90
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Hmmmm...

There's a pair of 12" coaxials back home, where the main cone has a whizzer, and will hit ~10kHz before rolling off gently. Until you switch the tweeters in, there's not much missing.
70L, 30Hz tuning, and each side will stand 600w (yes, I've tried, one side at a time - my big bass amp ran out of steam before the drivers complained). When one speaker is 98dB@1w, they can go stupid loud.

They're similar to the Eminence Beta 12LT, but nicer drivers: cast frame, better motor etc.

FR drivers can do bass, but they'll need a supertweeter.

Chris
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