It seems to me there is some confusion as to what is a fullrange speaker for the purposes of this forum.
A fullrange loudspeaker is one that uses a single (or multiple) driver(s) to cover the complete (or a significant portion of the) frequency range. These can sometimes be "helped" with a tweeter(s) or a woofer(s). Often, the fullranger covers from 100Hz to 15kHz, (or a similar range based on the particular fullranger or wide range driver being used).
So folks, if seeking help for a typical multi-way loudspeaker project, please post under "multiway", not "fullrange". It can help those seeking help to end up where they need to be.
For mods: please make this a sticky if you feel suitable.
Thanks
A fullrange loudspeaker is one that uses a single (or multiple) driver(s) to cover the complete (or a significant portion of the) frequency range. These can sometimes be "helped" with a tweeter(s) or a woofer(s). Often, the fullranger covers from 100Hz to 15kHz, (or a similar range based on the particular fullranger or wide range driver being used).
So folks, if seeking help for a typical multi-way loudspeaker project, please post under "multiway", not "fullrange". It can help those seeking help to end up where they need to be.
For mods: please make this a sticky if you feel suitable.
Thanks
Define 'full range'. I mean when I entered this hobby, 'full range' reproduction was nominally flat from 50 -11,000 cps [Hz] and even then a two way was considered the minimum acceptable for good power handling.
For a single driver, 'full range' was 75 - 7000 cps [Hz], so to my way of thinking [and promoting for as long as I've been using them], any single driver speaker system with a powerful enough 'FR' driver to handle this BW can/should have a super tweeter and/or bass system to handle today's near live audio reproductions.
All that said, now that folks are finally starting to embrace my way of using 'FR' drivers ;), I believe it's time to add another forum for these wide BW 'mids' multiple driver systems and keep the 'FR' forum a single driver one and maybe best to rename it as such since there are no single drivers capable of handling some of today's recordings, hence can't be 'full range' capable.
GM
Martin Logan. Quad. My Grado cans? OK, not a dynamic cone. GM is hitting on a significant point. Most of the "FR" drivers are pretty good candidates as wide band mids where the crossovers are outside the critical 2 to 5K range. I am not sure that is significant enough to not just include that application in multi-way leaving this for attempts to use a single driver type to be a musical as possible. So the desktop speakers I made with FE85'sw are full range ( 150 to 8K) but I may use it as a midrange in another build, 500 to 5K. So the full range thread is for speaker systems with no crossover. ( not no network) Doers that exclude a 1.5 way if both drivers are the same? Best not to worry about it.
Martin Logans have a Cone LF / bass driver, Quad ESLs didn't do an overly wide range, at least not effectively.
FR covers what's essential to understanding the material. Whether music or just speech, 100 to 10k Hz is sufficient, and any decent fr driver gets close enough. I want and appreciate more yet the fact remains that my musical education has been based on simple single speakers in cars or radios, or the real music from a piano or choir or any other actual musical experience. JMO once again.
My current basement system is a 6.5 whizzer cone Matsu in a borrowed Teac box. It never fails to present a voice or a hall honestly. It does tell me when a record is compiled from multiple sources time wise. Ambiance is hard to fake.
My current basement system is a 6.5 whizzer cone Matsu in a borrowed Teac box. It never fails to present a voice or a hall honestly. It does tell me when a record is compiled from multiple sources time wise. Ambiance is hard to fake.
Single-driver full-range speaker is an oxymoron. Period. A single-driver speaker may cover sufficient range to be satisfying, but that is another issue. If you only listen to girl-and-a guitar or string quartets and you hearing is dead above 10k, then a single-driver speaker IS full-range. Anything else, not so much. This is why you see more and more designs here that use a relatively small mid-tweet and a woofer to do the bottom couple of hundred Hz.
Bob
Bob
The meat of the matter is a thick slice of semantics sandwiched between two slices of grey area. The term fullrange is in itself misleading IMO and may end-up defeating the elevated expectations of people trying it out (in a serious manner - everyone has heard a compact shelf system) for the first time.
In my book, a driver that I call fullrange can play at least 2 decades without any major flaw and do so at levels satisfying for the intended use. Most modern drivers, as well as many vintage ones, so dubbed can do even better, clever enclosure design not withstanding. Heck, I own mid-bass drivers that come close to this. If really limited to two useful decades, something like 50Hz-5khz or 200Hz-20kHz, I can see the need for a helper woofer or tweeter, but generally end-up prefering a driver on its own.
IG
In my book, a driver that I call fullrange can play at least 2 decades without any major flaw and do so at levels satisfying for the intended use. Most modern drivers, as well as many vintage ones, so dubbed can do even better, clever enclosure design not withstanding. Heck, I own mid-bass drivers that come close to this. If really limited to two useful decades, something like 50Hz-5khz or 200Hz-20kHz, I can see the need for a helper woofer or tweeter, but generally end-up prefering a driver on its own.
IG
I find it disheartening and perplexing that so many of the old hands in here, not only in this thread but in others too, are casting doubts as to whether single driver speakers really are good enough on their own.
I find it especially mystifying that mr. Brines who has a business selling single driver speakers, seems not really to have faith in his own product, or at least relegates them for use with only "girl-and-a guitar or string quartets".
I think it has very much to do with expectations.
Single driver speakers can be perfectly fine for most peoples everyday needs, and indeed give more bang for the buck and building time than just about anything else.
IF you don't expect huge dynamic range and being able to play at realistic concert levels.
The human senses has a wondrous way of scaling and adapting.
In the same way that a smaller screen can be very good for material originally intended for much larger screens, smaller speakers can do a good job a reproducing even quite complex music at lower volumes.
For realistic volume levels other strategies are needed, but it is far from always possible/appropriate/necessary to play material at the original or approaching level.
Please do clarify.
I find it especially mystifying that mr. Brines who has a business selling single driver speakers, seems not really to have faith in his own product, or at least relegates them for use with only "girl-and-a guitar or string quartets".
I think it has very much to do with expectations.
Single driver speakers can be perfectly fine for most peoples everyday needs, and indeed give more bang for the buck and building time than just about anything else.
IF you don't expect huge dynamic range and being able to play at realistic concert levels.
The human senses has a wondrous way of scaling and adapting.
In the same way that a smaller screen can be very good for material originally intended for much larger screens, smaller speakers can do a good job a reproducing even quite complex music at lower volumes.
For realistic volume levels other strategies are needed, but it is far from always possible/appropriate/necessary to play material at the original or approaching level.
Please do clarify.
GM's post also seems uncharacteristically unconsidered, even keeping in mind his affinity for alternative multidriver solutions.
Huh?!
GM
Is that a trick question?
In the same way that a lot of other tools/transducers/vehicles/woman etc. come in lots of varieties, non of them satisfying all needs at all times, but rather complementing each other, differently designed speakers of course do different things well, while doing others less well.
That said, most people only have room for one set in their living room.
I find that SD FR speakers satisfy most of my needs with a wide selection of music.
In the same way that a lot of other tools/transducers/vehicles/woman etc. come in lots of varieties, non of them satisfying all needs at all times, but rather complementing each other, differently designed speakers of course do different things well, while doing others less well.
That said, most people only have room for one set in their living room.
I find that SD FR speakers satisfy most of my needs with a wide selection of music.
Well, i must say with my fieldcoil unit (Ryu) in a horn alignment i pretty close reaching that range and 100db at 2.83V input. It's possible but you need to sacrifice space, horn will be pretty big.
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