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Old 4th November 2012, 01:26 AM   #21
cotdt is offline cotdt  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Monte Verdi View Post
Only a bass and baritone enter at 100 or so. Directon is a non issue with stereo subs and even with that bass is omni directional, really can't see this as an issue unless your bass cabinet is stuffed in a corner. Let your ears decide, I for one have no problem crossing over at 100-120 Hz!
Well, by sub we assume mono. If you are using stereo subs near your main unit then it's a full 3-way (or 2-way if using fullrange). If you cross over at 100-120Hz then you can still hear it at up to 400Hz. No problem for you. However, most of us are forced to put the sub (mono) under a table or at some odd corner and crossing high at 100Hz simply sounds terrible.
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Old 4th November 2012, 01:37 AM   #22
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Old 4th November 2012, 02:10 AM   #23
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Old 4th November 2012, 02:40 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotdt View Post
Well, by sub we assume mono. If you are using stereo subs near your main unit then it's a full 3-way (or 2-way if using fullrange). If you cross over at 100-120Hz then you can still hear it at up to 400Hz. No problem for you. However, most of us are forced to put the sub (mono) under a table or at some odd corner and crossing high at 100Hz simply sounds terrible.
yeah, I sort of agree with you however. with my fonkens, the xo is around 140 hz and even I have stereo subs that act as stands for my speakers, and Im not to fund with the sound, I'll try the xo at around 80 hz then and see how it sounds
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Old 4th November 2012, 02:43 AM   #25
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Try 100Hz. It could be room interaction related.
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Old 4th November 2012, 03:06 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cotdt View Post
Well, by sub we assume mono. If you are using stereo subs near your main unit then it's a full 3-way (or 2-way if using fullrange). If you cross over at 100-120Hz then you can still hear it at up to 400Hz. No problem for you. However, most of us are forced to put the sub (mono) under a table or at some odd corner and crossing high at 100Hz simply sounds terrible.
No doubt it will sound terrible with sub under table which incidentally acts as a resonator which can create a one note thump rather than bass notes . BTW, the 12p starts rolling off at 100 Hz rather dramatically, but if it works for you great, just not my preference, Best to crossover in area where the least activity is musically happening and for obvious reasons 100-120 is an excellent place from our experiments with this driver, ymmv.
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Old 4th November 2012, 04:41 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Monte Verdi View Post
No doubt it will sound terrible with sub under table which incidentally acts as a resonator which can create a one note thump rather than bass notes . BTW, the 12p starts rolling off at 100 Hz rather dramatically, but if it works for you great, just not my preference, Best to crossover in area where the least activity is musically happening and for obvious reasons 100-120 is an excellent place from our experiments with this driver, ymmv.
BTW, I forgot too mention experiments have been done using a speakers in OB format so a crossover @ 80 Hz may be more practical for those who are in boxes!

Ramon
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Old 4th November 2012, 06:18 AM   #28
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I see I see. Thanks Ramon for the info. You're right though, it does start rolling off at 100Hz. Did you ever write up your own impressions about this driver? I would love to read it.
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Old 4th November 2012, 03:32 PM   #29
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I see I see. Thanks Ramon for the info. You're right though, it does start rolling off at 100Hz. Did you ever write up your own impressions about this driver? I would love to read it.
Sadly have not had time for detailed impressions or review. I can say there are 2 members/friends here with the Santa Fe Audiophile Society that use the 12P' s or have used them.
Unfortunately none in boxes, including mine which are in OB format, also I imagine they sound excellent in a box. with crossover hovering around 80-90 Hz . We all have various single ended and push pull amps etc, so numerous listening sessions have happened, I will try and post impressions but can't promise as family and work are consuming at this time.

Ramon
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Old 8th November 2012, 03:12 PM   #30
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ok the alpair have had around 100 hours on them.

they sound incredible.
this is all against a fe127

The highs are great. The cymbal is detailed, they go high enough for me, and Im 25. the tonality is where its at. I hear the space in which the drums was recorded for example. The high are airy, dont seem constraints in any way. They go high enough but I might play with my supertweeter cross at 15k or something

I must say that right now, the main difference is in the soundstage and instrument placement. Everything is so detailed, with a realistic soundstage. I feel the distance between the instrument sometime, and we hear the decays of everything. I can hear the fingers moving around a guitar, or the piston from saxophone. I can totally hear the singer breathing. ITs hard to convey in word what I hear, but the amount of details is just a shock for me. They do sounds a a bit like a electromagnetic speaker. The amount of details really reminds me of a maggie speaker I once listen.
The vocal are again beautiful, with no trace of harshness. the vocals are detailed, and tonally great.
the drivers defenitly arent forward sounding: they let me sit in the middle of the audience, not on the first row like the fe127. that makes me really comfortable and let me focus on the music as a whole. The music comes as music, the prat is definitely right with any jazz or classical I put. men I could listen to celine dion and be shocked by her talent. I totally can feel the articulation of a singer for example, how he raise his voice at time or the ssss sibilance in the voice is captured. for electronica, I hear reverbs and some detail I totally never heard before with such clarity. I have had studio speaker before, the focal cms-50, and the alpair are better in every aspect.
dynamic are great.
Really, I cant find anything bad to say, i am really happy with the sound.
the alapair is in another league to the fe127 IMO. really I am please with my system as its now, I just have what I was exactly aiming for in hifi. Details, realistic tone, instrument separation and sounstage quite stunning, dynamic and exciting, without anything that sounds harsh, they make me really concentrate on music, and thats important.

JAson

Last edited by murphythecat8; 8th November 2012 at 03:28 PM.
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